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Discussion Starter #1
just saw this in another thread, but there was no explanation. only that he read it over at m6tech. can anyone tell me the purpose of changing the oil at 1000mi?


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Well, in layman's terms... there are 2 reasons why you should change the oil so early.

1) when the car is built and shipped the lot, the oil may still contain small metal shavings in it... thus it would be wise to change the oil early... although there is still some debate as to whether this is true.

2) unless you special ordered your car, you probably do not know how long your car has been sitting on the lot. So, you could actually have a car that has been sitting for months, unused on the lot. Thus, an early oil change could be considered beneficial.


Sidenote: There is also some debate as to whether the factory oil has additives in it that help in "breaking in the engine." I know for a fact that honda has that policy and claims that you should wait 8,000-10,000 miles before the first oil change. Although that seems quite long IMO, I have talked to HONDA representatives and they stand by it.
 

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Few notes...

1) Mazda doesn't use any special break-in oil. The oil used is standard 5w-20 Semi-Syn Motorcraft. (Thats right, factory fill is semi-synthetic, so obviously, that also means synthetic is fine...no matter what you read).

2) During the inital break-in of an engine (First 20-50 miles, mazda's breakin timing is 600 miles) alot of wear metals are produced. This is primarily from the rings seating in the iron cylinder sleeves, various bearings seating in properly..etc etc. A very large portion of these metals are too small to be caught by the filter medium (sub 20 microns in size) and are instead suspended in the actual oil itself.

This of course means you've got a whole slew of metal particles flying around your engine...which causes cascading inital wear...causing more engine wear. This effect is so pronouced, that at oil change at just 1000 miles (on the odometer) can have more wear metals suspended in the oil then 30x normal!

Here's some quick examples (Thanks to Colin for this UOA).

This is the amount of wear metals in the oil at 1000 miles. Note iron, copper, and silicon.

Now here's another UOA (Thanks Paul) with 7,000 miles on the oil, but with almost 30,000 miles on the odometer.

Note the massive difference between the amount of metal in this oil sample (even with 7,100 miles on the oil) vs the inital factory fill with just 1000 miles on the sample.

Confused? Here's a nifty quick photoshop showing the two side by side.


Using my crappy math...in the first 1000 miles...thats 12x more iron wear, 100x more copper wear, and 26x more silicon then a normal (even extended) oil change interval on an aged (broken in) engine.

Basically changing the oil early gets these wear metals out. Do you have to do it? No, not really. But its fun to care more about your car and engine, and this also gives an early excuse for bonding with the car, and ensures maximum longevity out of the rings and bearings in your engine (baring any manufacturer defects).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by davecoyne@Aug 13 2004, 12:07 PM
Nice, Greg!  This is now stick-ified!
[snapback]291636[/snapback]​
yah man, very informative! i just hit 1000 mi today. i'll be changing the oil tomorrow. w00t.

any suggestions as to what kind of oil to use??? cost is of no consequence :D

j/k


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While it may be "safe" to use a syn at 1000 miles, I held off till 7500 to switch over to synthetic. I was getting some oil consumption up till around 5000 miles, which indicates that the rings had not fully seated yet. Going to syn before the rings are seated will make that process more lengthy and perhaps even prevent it from happening properly. Some will dismiss this as an old wives tale, and it very well might be, but there is nothing wrong with erreing to the side of caution and waiting a bit to go from conventional oil to synthetic. Opinions aside, the above UOA with 7000 miles was from my car and the insoluables were incredibly low. This is indicative of an excellent ring seal and complete combustion, as well as very good oil filtration. BTW, I was using an OE spec Motorcraft FL-820S which cost all of about $3, so no need to spend the money on the fancy name oil filters.

I broke it in as per the manual, with light throttle and tried to vary engine and road speeds for the first 1000 miles. Changed the oil at 1000 miles with Motorcraft 5w20 and redlined it after a quick warm up :drive:. Changed again at 3500 miles with the same and went to German Castrol Syntec 0w30 at 7500 miles. I chose a heavier oil because of my climate (average around 95-100*F during the summer months) and have had good success with it. Some have tried this oil and have noted that the engine felt a little tighter and less willing to rev. My butt dyno hasn't registered any such ill effects, so I'm going to stick with it... that and I have about 25 more qts. of the stuff in the garage :laugh:
 

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I agree with going with a stock filter. Big name filters such as Mobil 1 and K&N tend to cause more of a restriction.. I used to use Mobil 1 filters on my 87 Grand National until testing showed that they were WORSE than say a regualr AC delco filter. I use Bosch or Wix filters now. On my 6S, i changed the oil at 705 miles w/ 5w-20 Valvoline, and have been driving it fairly hard. Brought it up to the redline a couple times but no prolonged high rpms.
 

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Actually, both the M1 and K&N filters flow better than stock, but filter marginally less well. They are all fine filters, it's just that brand M and brand K do not perform much of any better, but cost about 3 times more. It's your money, spend it how you want. Just don't think that just because you spent more of your hard earned that you are getting a product that is doing a better job than the stock filter. Oh, the WIX filter is also an excellent product, also sold under the Napa name as well as another that slips my mind right now. A couple bucks more than the Motorcraft filter, and a far better value than M1 and K&N.
 

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Adding more information...

On the 6s, the supersized variant of the FL-820S is the FL-1A, which is a longer version of the same filter.

Here's a thread going over the benefits of a larger oil filter.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultima...ic;f=6;t=001752

Of course the X-ref for that filter in the K&N is HP-3001. G-cubed is test fitting the FL-1A this coming weekend, but were pretty sure it'll fit.

As for the aftermarket filters...the stock FL-820S is a pretty high quality piece, as is the FL-1A...however neither compare to the quality (or high cost) of the K&N or Mobil1.

Between those two filters, the Mobil1 has better filtration ability, while the K&N oil filter is one of the highest flow filters on the market. There is always a big argument over which is better, filtration or flow. In an engine which gets its power high in the rev range, flow is generally more important, which is why I'm sticking with the K&N's.

As for oil, I'm running 5w-20 motorcraft for around 3600 miles, then switching to 0w-20 mobil1, then possibly redline 5w-20 (doing a UOA) at a later date.

I agree with paul on holding off for a bit on synthetic...if not because of the reasons mentioned by paul, then for cost. Because of these extra wear metals early in a car life, its generally recommended to avoid extended intervals...thus changing the oil more frequently for the first 5-10k miles results in a heavy cost if your using syn....

But with motorcraft 5w-20 @ 1.44 qt, its not expensive at all to do 3k intervals for the first 10k miles.
 

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I'm a little leary of the FL-1A fitting Greg. My Merkur XR4Ti uses that filter and it is HUGE! That part is good, but it'll be one hell of a squeeze to get it past the front exhaust manifold/pre-cat. A little more capacity is certainly a good thing, but I do believe that the FL-820S is adaquately sized, unlike some of the stock filters on Honda motors... those filters are tiny!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
another noob question:

what's the purpose of redlining after an oil change? should it be done only after an oil change? how many times? redline at what gear(s)?

thanks!


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Ummm.... I don't think anyone here is advocating redlining the car right after the first oil change as a "to do" item. We just did because our break-in period was officially over and running the engine through the range is fun! In all seriousness, 1000 miles is really an arbitrary number. The break-in process is gradual and a motor might not be fully broken in for tens of thousands of miles. I do believe that you should make an effort to vary road and engine speeds during the first few hundred miles without going WOT (wide open throttle) or lugging the engine. Beyond that just have fun with your car.
 

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The most important thing to do is VARY THE RPM. I'd avoid redlining the car if possible, but try and go through the entire power range...don't use cruise control, don't sit at 2k rpm for an hour, etc. (For first 600-1000 miles)

You want to make sure you flex the car's entire powerband early on, so everything seats properly.

Paul,

84fordman was running the Fram X2 for awhile, which I think is about the same length. Either way, G-cubed is the guinea pig! Not me! :)

There are some sites which will point out an engine should be broken in as hard as possible, and while their arguments have some merit, I like to err on the combination of their theories and Mazda's.

1) Vary the Rpm Through the Entire Powerband.
2) Avoid prolonged similar rpm's or cruise control. You have 4-5 gears, use them.
3) Avoid harsh takeoffs/stops.
4) Change your oil earlier then the original manufacturers spec's if you want peace of mind.

What I basically did on the way home from the dealership was get on the highway and take the longest possible route home. I drove in the slow lane, and when no one was in front of me, or behind me, I'd swap to a lower gear and slow down to around 2k rpm, then bring her slowly up to around 5-6k, then let the engine slowly brake down to 2k rpm again, repeat 2-3x, then cruise (Not cruise control) for 5 minutes, repeat. I actually changed the oil the second I got home (120 miles)...but I'm insane like that.

I got some pretty weird looks, and who knows if it did anything..I guess we'll see when I dyno in 10k miles or so.
 

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i am of the school of use the entire rpm range... for the people who say to keep it under 3-4k for the first x amt of miles, i think thats absolute garbage, you should break in the car how you want to drive it for the rest of its life. (albeit not as hard, but hit every rpm you can) I have seen engines torn about at 150k, side by side, with one person grannying it and one person driving it (same service records/intervals), and usually the person who drives it, varying ENTIRE RPM range, etc, has a higher post break in HP number as well as better looking internals
 

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:drive: When you buy YOUR car the clock starts in respect to 3 mts. 3000 miles or 5 mts 5,000 miles.

The hardest thing on engine parts is starting a car and not driving it. Not warming the car to driving temperatures.

Ask yourself another question. :D :swearin: You know when you bought your car. Do you know when the car was delivered to the dealer? For the price of an oil change isn't it worth it? :p
 

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Originally posted by pisadong@Aug 16 2004, 11:35 PM
I'm a little leary of the FL-1A fitting Greg. My Merkur XR4Ti uses that filter and it is HUGE! That part is good, but it'll be one hell of a squeeze to get it past the front exhaust manifold/pre-cat. A little more capacity is certainly a good thing, but I do believe that the FL-820S is adaquately sized, unlike some of the stock filters on Honda motors... those filters are tiny!
[snapback]292831[/snapback]​
The last time I changed the oil in my wifes 02 TL, the parts guy gave me an even smaller filter than the one I had been using previously. He assured me it was the right one, and that there had been a change to the current filter. The o-ring barely fits up to base of the filter housing! I hope it is doing it's job, I usually go 5 to 7k between changes on that car with Mobile 1.
 

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So did you guys ever install the FL-1A, and what were the results?

I'm a newbie and will pass 1K miles this week, so I would like to do the change. Also I haven't been under the car yet, but since there is no HOW TO I figure it is pretty easy access to the oil filter?

Thanks in advance.

Steve
 

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Re changing a 6s oil filter:
The local auto parts store sells an inexpensive tool designed specifically for Motorcraft oil filters that fits directly on a 3/8" drive ratchet. A good thing, because it wasn't obvious how I could use a generic strap wrench on that filter.

Do any of you have good ideas how to collect the oil from the filter when removing it, before it runs down the block, onto the exhaust manifold, and down my arm?

It was a very tight fit getting the oil filter between exhaust manifold and frame member. Is that true for everybody's 6s?
 
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