[Jimmer307]

I am currently throwing two codes causing a "Check Engine" and need to pass emissions in a couple weeks. I am looking for some suggestions on what would cause both? It is possible that I have two issues, but I am guessing they are related...
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire (Before I cleared my codes this was a P0300)
P2187 - Bank 1 Lean at Idle
I have searched Idenifix and there are NO confirmed fixes. There are a few TSB's, but was wondering if anyone has had experience with these CEL's.
I have already replaced the plugs & have cylinder 2 coil on the way...
Let me know any helpful logging information as I have access to a nice OBDII scanner that tells me almost anything I could need to know.

Any suggestions? (Thanks ahead of time)

 

[IHeartGroceries]

The misfire code is throwing me off, but the 2187 is notorious for showing up with a purge valve problem, for which there is a TSB. 2187 may also show up with the AEM or MS CAI.

 

[Jimmer307]

Well it's about time for an update. I got my cylinder 2 coil in after two weeks of waiting because I didn't feel like paying $200 at the stealership. I bought it for $85+tax from Carquest here in St. Louis MO. Well I installed the new coil and still get the same misfire code. I don't get it. The only things it can possibly be are plugs (replaced w/ Autolite Irridium .027 gap), Coil (Replaced), or something fuel related (Injector). What are the odds there is a sticking injector on a car that has under 40k miles?

As far as the Lean at idle code, I have gotten NOWHERE either. I am pissed and about to give up on my MS6 and go back to my good ole DSM's. I absolutely love the MS6, but I am getting so annoyed. At least DSM problems cheap to fix.

Someone point me in the right direction. I was due for emissions inspection two days ago and am now driving around with expired temp tags because I cannot shake this damn check engine light.

Tomorrow I am off work and school so I will do a compression test to make sure the motor is not the problem and I will return the autolite's and get some NGK plugs. I will also inspect the "purge valve" if someone can show me where the F it is. I hate emissions so much...

 

[IHeartGroceries]

So, no aftermarket intake?

Be sure about ALL of your ignition system foremost.

Compression check might not be a bad idea.

 

[Jimmer307]

So, no aftermarket intake?

Be sure about ALL of your ignition system foremost.

Compression check might not be a bad idea.

I have a janky stock intake that I am going to take a look at. It seems as though the last owner had a CAI on there, but a stock one was put back on and half-assed. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't put a connection back. I will take a look tomorrow and get back with you.

In the mean time, if anyone else has any other ideas let me know what you're thinking.

BTW: Making sure I had the cylinders correct...
Passanger side 1,2,3,4 Driver Side... CORRECT?

 

[IHeartGroceries]

Hmmm...
Check that intake system first. Make sure all connections are 100%, especially between the MAF and turbo compressor. Inspect the MAF and clean if necessary.
Maybe your misfires are due to a very lean condition.

 

[FORZDA 1]

.....Maybe your misfires are due to a very lean condition.

Yep, this ^^^^. The P2187 says you have an air leak post MAF that is causing the LTFT to be too high. The lean condition is causing a bit of miss-fire detection occassionally. Go and fix the intake problem and the CEL/codes will go away.

 

[beard0350]

i had this problem with my 6s 3.0L. It turned out that my intake tube that looks like an accordian had a tear in it. i was running lean at idle and had a mis in a couple cylinders. Then, a little while later i had a mis in cylinder six. i replaced all the plugs and coils, and while i was working on it, the air filter and pcv valve and intake manifold gaskets. i still had the miss in cylinder 6. i pulled cylinder 6 plug and it appeared to be fouled already so i put another one in it. still had the mis. then i even replaced the fuel injector even though they all had the same resistance. still had the miss. now i'm leaning towards a burt valve because of the lean idle i had previously, the somewhat crappy idle i have now, and i have no other stored codes except p0306. i was hoping it was a vac leak but that checked out ok. i'm going compression test next but i already have a set of used heads w/ 18,000 miles on them coming my way for about $350 a piece. the moral of the story is try to fix that lean idle problem sooner than later before you end up like sorry ass me. tomorrow if i find out that its not a burnt valve i'm still keeping the heads for another project. i was also hoping that with todays technology the ecm would try to correct the lean issue before a valve burnt up. if anyone else has any ideas i'd be glad to hear them, before i clog a $917 pre cat.

 

[FORZDA 1]

.....i was also hoping that with todays technology the ecm would try to correct the lean issue before a valve burnt up.

Hmmm, well it was telling the OP the only way it can with a CEL and code for "Lean". Unfortunately even the latest vehicles can't correct for owner apathy....

 

[beard0350]

WOW. dont beat around the bush FORZDA (creative name by the way) tell us how you really feel. i didnt say, why didnt it warn me there was a problem, i said correct the lean issue, if it knows its running lean why not add fuel where it needs to until the problem gets resolved, not fix itself. Hey, if it tells the injectors what to do when the car is running with no malfuntions, after it collects the info it needs from other sensors like the throttle body position sensor, coolant temp sensor, MAF, etc. why not increase the injectors puls width when it picks up a lean bank from an o2 sensor. It knows it needs more fuel, I didn't think it would be too far fetched to think this was a possibility. and i only thought that because only after i checked ignition, fuel delivery and vac leaks did i realize that maybe i burnt a valve do to running lean a week or so before, then hope in technology came into play. any USEFUL info would be appreciated, but i can take a shot too, thanks FORZDA.

 

[FORZDA 1]

WOW. dont beat around the bush FORZDA (creative name by the way) tell us how you really feel. i....... any USEFUL info would be appreciated, but i can take a shot too, thanks FORZDA.

LOL GREAT reply!

Yeah, the ECU can only correct lean by adding fuel up to a point (~25%). One problem is that it can't detect exactly where the lean problem originates. If a single cylinder is lean and it adds fuel to compensate, the other cylinders will be terribly rich to the point of plug fouling, but the overall AFR may be within reasonable specs. The same thing applies to rich conditions as well. If a single cylinder is running very rich due to injector leak, etc. then the ECU pulls enough fuel to get to the overall AFR target and the motor goes BOOM because the other cylinders are detonation-level lean. If you could afford to pay for it, the engine could have sensors for every cylinder and every conceivable problem, but you really wouldn't want to own it as the OBD monitoring system would be so complicated that the OBD system would require another skill set to maintain. There are MANY reasons for how the ECUs operate....

 

[beard0350]

your right. it all seems easy if you have a basic understanding of how these things are supposed to work but it makes sense that the ecu would need another skill set. that sucks that it wouldn't add some to each cylider in the lean bank first to try and narrow the problem down to the cyl. stupid ratios LOL. any way, i defininetly burnt a valve. with 100psi going in through the spark plug hole at TDC, it only holds 10 of those psi. and you can hear the wind in the exhaust. Valve Job is a pain in the ass. i may get a re-man from one of my wholsalers cause i'm thinking a day or two to put it in compared to a valve job I may screw up, and take who knows how long. I may just put the the ugly step sister (my prelude) back on the road til i figure it out.

 

[Jimmer307]

It's been a while since I have posted an update on here and alot has changed except the CEL LOL. Alright so I replaced the plugs with Autolites as a temporary fix. The car ran alot better, but still threw a code. I decided to fix my intake situation w/ an Injen CAI and no more intake codes. So that left me with this pesky cylinder 2 misfire. Shortly after replacing the plugs I replaced the coil. To my surprise it still did not fix it. Well yesterday, I ran some sea foam through her and man did it smoke LOL. However, I STILL have the code. After doing pretty much everything on the cheaper end and having no code-clearing results, I decided to check the compression for fear it would be terrible. To my surprise I have 160 across the board. So now I am at a loss... Where the hell do I go from here????


Another ?... While I had the hood popped and TMIC off, I took a video of an annoying noise by the valve cover whenever the car is on. Tell me what you guys think...

Sea foam for entertainment...

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Speed135]

Sounds like a solenoid turned on. Could it be the purge solenoid-don't know.
You pretty well nailed it on causes for misfire on nbr 2 cyl. With intake off a few times, maybe that is the problem, bad mating surface at nbr 2 runner sucking in a little air-probably don't take much at idle to cause CEL. Spray some brake cleaning fluid or something safer in area of that intake runner mating surface, being careful with flamable spray. Should see change in idle speed if leaking there.
Got a CEL code 2187 yesterday, going out to deal with it now. Pretty sure it is the purge valve because vacume at idle has been dropping last few days.

 

[Toptech]

WOW. dont beat around the bush FORZDA (creative name by the way) tell us how you really feel. i didnt say, why didnt it warn me there was a problem, i said correct the lean issue, if it knows its running lean why not add fuel where it needs to until the problem gets resolved, not fix itself.

Because it only has one O2 sensor for four cylinders. When it detects a lean condition, it doesn't know which cylinder is running lean. Therefor, it adds fuel to all cylinders. For this reason, it will only add a small amount of fuel, too much could damage the engine or the cat. So if you have, say, a blown intake gasket on number two cylinder, that cylinder will still run lean even after increasing the fuel trim because too much air is being drawn directly into that cylinder.

 

[FORZDA 1]

......Another ?... While I had the hood popped and TMIC off, I took a video of an annoying noise by the valve cover whenever the car is on. Tell me what you guys think...

LOL That buzzing noise is the DBW throttle body. When you turn the key on it obviously is energized and drives the throttle to the start position. When you shut the car off, it cycles through a calibration cycle and closes completely. All normal stuff.

 

[Jimmer307]

......Another ?... While I had the hood popped and TMIC off, I took a video of an annoying noise by the valve cover whenever the car is on. Tell me what you guys think...

LOL That buzzing noise is the DBW throttle body. When you turn the key on it obviously is energized and drives the throttle to the start position. When you shut the car off, it cycles through a calibration cycle and closes completely. All normal stuff.

Yeah I was informed of this on my youtube link. I am not used to this high tech shit LOL. Any input on where to go next on the misfire?

 

[06speedemon]

......Another ?... While I had the hood popped and TMIC off, I took a video of an annoying noise by the valve cover whenever the car is on. Tell me what you guys think...

Yeah I was informed of this on my youtube link. I am not used to this high tech shit LOL. Any input on where to go next on the misfire?

I kept getting the random misfire code awhile back, I swapped out my plugs to one step colder densos(itv22) gapped to .030 and haven't had the code again since.
Only reason I bring it up is that I first swapped to oem fomocos and the code came back.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Could definitely be the plugs even new ones. The gap is indeed only 0.30 and most of the plugs come set at 0.50 or more.

 

[Jimmer307]

I'll put some NGK's in it and see how she runs... If that doesn't help I am leaning towards an Injector. I will post back with results tonight.