It doesn't seem like it would be a huge engineering effort for Mazda to the Turbocharged 2.5 out of the CX-9 (perhaps with minor tuning improvements to 260-270 HP) into the Mazda 6.
C/D Reviews 2017 Mazda 6 GT
Car and Driver recently posted an in-depth review of the 2017 Mazda 6 Grand Touring. They heaped quite a bit of praise on the 6, but as you might expect from C/D they lamented the lack of power as well as the limited options on the GT. They even went so far as to recommend the Touring trim since it has the MTX option. Like many here on the forum, they stated that the 6 would be better served with a turbo option. However, with the Zoom-Zoom 2030 initiative released yesterday, chances look slim of that happening.
Read the full review here.
Read the full review here.
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I think you're mis-characterizing what they're saying. I wouldn't say they "lamented the lack of power" with this:
The 6’s zero-to-60-mph time is the quickest in this matchup, and its behavior in reaching those speeds is enthusiastic. Drivers can look forward to a sense of zeal from the Mazda’s four-cylinder engine. Not as smooth as a Honda four-cylinder, the Mazda engine is still more refined than most, and it’s an eager player whether on a twisting back road or dicing through traffic—although it can run out of breath at higher speeds.
As I stated in another thread the 6 is by far the quickest among 4-cylinder and almost as quick, or even quicker, than most 2.0t competitors.
Where did they lament the "limited options on the GT"? The only thing I see is "virtually no options", which could very well mean the lack of a la carte options, rather most options are grouped into packages. This is a common complaint with Honda and others.
The 6’s zero-to-60-mph time is the quickest in this matchup, and its behavior in reaching those speeds is enthusiastic. Drivers can look forward to a sense of zeal from the Mazda’s four-cylinder engine. Not as smooth as a Honda four-cylinder, the Mazda engine is still more refined than most, and it’s an eager player whether on a twisting back road or dicing through traffic—although it can run out of breath at higher speeds.
As I stated in another thread the 6 is by far the quickest among 4-cylinder and almost as quick, or even quicker, than most 2.0t competitors.
Where did they lament the "limited options on the GT"? The only thing I see is "virtually no options", which could very well mean the lack of a la carte options, rather most options are grouped into packages. This is a common complaint with Honda and others.
But the competitive landscape has always had 260+ HP V6 options - and now in MY 2018, several with well over 300 HP. I haven't driven the new Accord or the new Camry, but I did drive a Fusion Sport with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Even though the electronic AWD came across as "gimmicky" to me, I can say definitively that if the Fusion Sport came with a decent stick shift, I'd have bought it over the 6 - because 380 lb-ft of torque was anything but (gimmicky).As I stated in another thread the 6 is by far the quickest among 4-cylinder and almost as quick, or even quicker, than most 2.0t competitors.
If you look at their quick verdict box, this is what it said verbatim:
"Virtually no" means there were limited options. Their turbocharger quote means they feel it could use a more powerful trim engine option. No misrepresentation on my end so far as I can tell.Virtually no options, could use a turbocharger for more grunt
I agree with DeepCrystal, on paper the 2.0T Fusion and 2.0T Sonata are impressive but in testing it's only marginally faster, can't get good traction or transmission is lazy/poor gear ratios?
I don't care for these multi-speed or CV transmissions. 6 cogs is more than enough. For the alleged marginal fuel economy increase you get (10% at most), you're just adding more complication. Then there's the ZF 9 speed, which is complete garbage.I agree with DeepCrystal, on paper the 2.0T Fusion and 2.0T Sonata are impressive but in testing it's only marginally faster, can't get good traction or transmission is lazy/poor gear ratios?
Yeah but the Ford interior is crap. Plastic and poor touchpoints everywhere. When I drove one I couldn't wait to get out of it. IMO. The only "cheap" part in the 6 interior is the heads up display. Also IMO.But the competitive landscape has always had 260+ HP V6 options - and now in MY 2018, several with well over 300 HP. I haven't driven the new Accord or the new Camry, but I did drive a Fusion Sport with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Even though the electronic AWD came across as "gimmicky" to me, I can say definitively that if the Fusion Sport came with a decent stick shift, I'd have bought it over the 6 - because 380 lb-ft of torque was anything but (gimmicky).
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Yes I quoted that and stated what I believe they meant by it.If you look at their quick verdict box, this is what it said verbatim:
"Virtually no" means there were limited options. Their turbocharger quote means they feel it could use a more powerful trim engine option. No misrepresentation on my end so far as I can tell.
Now you're backing off your "lamented the lack of power" assertion. I agree, they feel it "could" use another engine option. Fine. They don't seem to feel it's hurting sales.
Who cares if the take rate of those V6's is maximum 10%? Toyota said they're only continuing to offer it in the 2018 Camry to increase showroom prestige, inferring they don't expect to sell many.But the competitive landscape has always had 260+ HP V6 options - and now in MY 2018, several with well over 300 HP. I haven't driven the new Accord or the new Camry, but I did drive a Fusion Sport with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Even though the electronic AWD came across as "gimmicky" to me, I can say definitively that if the Fusion Sport came with a decent stick shift, I'd have bought it over the 6 - because 380 lb-ft of torque was anything but (gimmicky).
The choice is there, but by far most buyers aren't exercising that choice. And the Fusion Sport is not in the same category as what we're talking about here. The Fusion 2.0t is.
I'm not sure. The 2.0t Malibu with it's 8 and 9 speeds has a 0-60 around 6 seconds, quite a bit quicker than the Fusion, Sonata, and Optima with their 6-speeds. See attached. The ZF 9-speed is the only one I've seen get universally lambasted. The new Honda 10-speed (or is it 9-speed) in the Odyssey is praised. As is the F-150's 10-speed.I don't care for these multi-speed or CV transmissions. 6 cogs is more than enough. For the alleged marginal fuel economy increase you get (10% at most), you're just adding more complication. Then there's the ZF 9 speed, which is complete garbage.
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A low "take rate" means nothing to me, if anything it makes it more rare and thus more valuable. The e60 550i M-Sport with active suspension and a proper three pedal manual that I cherished, wrecked, and replaced with a CPO Mazda 6 certainly had a low "take rate" as equipped from BMW. You know what? It was a VASTLY superior car to the 6.Who cares if the take rate of those V6's is maximum 10%? Toyota said they're only continuing to offer it in the 2018 Camry to increase showroom prestige, inferring they don't expect to sell many. The choice is there, but by far most buyers aren't exercising that choice. And the Fusion Sport is not in the same category as what we're talking about here. The Fusion 2.0t is.
By your logic, Mazda shouldn't make this car with a manual because of the take rate. I vehemently and vociferously disagree.
You're speaking from the point of view of an enthusiast. I'm speaking from the auto manufacturer's point of view. You enthusiasts complain about the lack of turbos and lack of manuals and this and that, when it makes absolutely no financial sense for the auto manufacturer to offer them because by far the vast majority of car buyers don't want them. Based on the Mazda6 sales of 2,500 a month, they might sell 250 turbos a month if they offered it? Maybe even 1,000 if they totally bucked the trend? I can't imagine they would pay back the engineering in the foreseeable future.A low "take rate" means nothing to me, if anything it makes it more rare and thus more valuable. The e60 550i M-Sport with active suspension and a proper three pedal manual that I cherished, wrecked, and replaced with a CPO Mazda 6 certainly had a low "take rate" as equipped from BMW. You know what? It was a VASTLY superior car to the 6.
By your logic, Mazda shouldn't make this car with a manual because of the take rate. I vehemently and vociferously disagree.
Just enjoy the 6 for what it is, the best-engineered mainstream 4-cylinder sedan out there, far outperforming its direct rivals.
In the words of Jules Winnfield - "I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard..."Just enjoy the 6 for what it is, the best-engineered mainstream 4-cylinder sedan out there, far outperforming its direct rivals.
Nice. I will admit I had to google that one. Been a long time since I saw the movie.In the words of Jules Winnfield - "I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard..."
There are those who will never stop being vocal about wanting more power or (in my case) wanting a MTX in their car. Most of them are enthusiasts. Yes, we seem to be a dwindling minority in the face of autonomous driving, bean counting and design streamlining. Most of us deep down understand that the scale of economy is working against us. Doesn't mean we'll stop asking.
Have you driven a 2015+ Chevy SS (rebadged Holden) with the magnetic suspension and the 6 speed manual? I full understand that it's only comparable because it's a stick shift, similar size sedan (CPO vs CPO, it was 2.5X the cost of the car I just bought), but it's absolutely wonderful.There are those who will never stop being vocal about wanting more power or (in my case) wanting a MTX in their car.
And therein is the crux. Yes, it's everything the enthusiast says they want. However, the Achille's heel is that this is an imported Holden Commodore. Therefore, it commands a $50K+ price tag. That put it up there with luxury marques. It's the same reason the Pontiac G8 and GTO (which was based on the Holden Monaro) failed. I'd love to take an SS for a spin and throw on in the driveway, but the least expensive example I've seen is a salvaged title car in Vegas for $31K. Average starting price for the SS used is around $41K, well outside my budget.
Yeah, it is - and you should drive one only if you want to lust after it by comparison. I test drove a silver (new) 2017 and almost pulled the trigger on a gorgeous peacock green (very dark color - looks black at night) low mileage example, still under extended warranty, in Philadelphia for $37K. That was still more money than I could have gotten a 2011-2013 550i (F10) with 6MT and M-Sport for, although I think it's a marginally better car than the BMW (although modified, the BMW catches up quickly).
Instead, I went "Dave Ramsay" and paid cash for a CPO 2015 6 Touring.
Instead, I went "Dave Ramsay" and paid cash for a CPO 2015 6 Touring.
Yeah my much younger brother is an enthusiast and has been looking at SS's recently. He's seeing them in the high 30's range. He previously owned a G8 GT and Z06. He would never consider a turbo'd manual version of a mainstream family sedan.
I would PM this to you, but I don't have that ability yet. Sorry if this is against the rules (not sure if it is or not).
This is a very good deal if it's what your brother is looking for (note that I have no relation to this seller, just that it's clean except for curb rash on one wheel and overall freaking gorgeous) : For Sale: RPGM 6MT w/14K miles in PA (near Philadelphia) - Page 2 - Chevy SS Forum
This is a very good deal if it's what your brother is looking for (note that I have no relation to this seller, just that it's clean except for curb rash on one wheel and overall freaking gorgeous) : For Sale: RPGM 6MT w/14K miles in PA (near Philadelphia) - Page 2 - Chevy SS Forum
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