[Brillo]

Well, I just finished my dyno runs, below are the numbers. I've got the charts on disk, so as soon as I figure out how to convert them I'll post the charts as well. Bare in mind my car is basically stock, with only Mobil1 oil and Redline Trans. Fluid. I also have the 17inch OEM wheels with continental tires (see signature). I did not remove the filter for any of these runs.

Run 1: 174.7HP @~6350 RPM, 168.5TQ @~4900 RPM
Run2: 175.4HP @~6350 RPM, 170.1TQ @~4900 RPM
Run3: 176.3HP @~6350 RPM, 170.7TQ @~4900 RPM

this is pretty close to White6s's numbers, so I guess the two sets of OEM wheels weigh about the same. I took some pics of the chart which I will also post in case I can't seem to post the graphs, let the tuning begin

 

[Draxas]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

Well.. We get our test Mazda6 on January 30th... Maybe we should have it dynoed that day as well.... The test Mazda6 is an automatic, so it will be good to see what the additional power loss is through the ATX.....

Hmm 200+ whp still sounds awfully nice.... we shall see...


Nikolas

 

[Brillo]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

It will probably be tomorrow before I can scan the dyno plot, it does look very similar to White6s's printout, especially the fuel air ratio, it runs real rich in the begining, and drops off sharply around 3600-4400RPM, I'll be curious as well to see the auto dyno'd, once again, I'm glad to the torque loss was only about ~12%

 

[CzechMate]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

Hmmm....those hp numbers seem a little on the low side, because that would be a 20% loss to get to 220 hp. 20% seems like a lot.

I am no expert, but I do have a Mustang GT and the general concensus about Mustangs is a ~15% loss with MTX and ~18% loss with ATX. Shouldn't a FWD car have LESS power loss than a RWD one? I hope this isn't gonna be like to '99 Cobra fiasco, where Ford rated the Cobra at 320 but it was dynoing at barely 300.

 

[LBJay]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

Dyno numbers are only useful for tuning. Do not get hung up on dyno numbers!!!

Two must reads if you are going to dyno your car just to see what numbers you get.

Puma Racing ENGINE DYNAMOMETERS

Dyno Thoughts and HP Losses

 

[SteVTEC]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

Brillo,

What type of fuel were you using? White 6s was using 91/93.


I just got my R&T and looked at the specs pages. It says the recommended fuel for the 6s is 91 octane now?? 87 required, 91 recommended?? From previous discussions, I thought it was 87 required, and 91 won't help...

What the heck??

 

[SteVTEC]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

With respect to dyno numbers and estimated losses.


I agree with LBJay - it really is just a guessing game unless you actually take the engine out and dyno it at the crank. Those are some great articles, too - definitely check them out


HOWEVER....


Just as a reference points for you guys, the 00-01 Nissan Maxima's are also FF cars, also had a 3.0L V6, and were rated at 222HP, very similar to the Mazda 6s. These cars with a 5MT typically put down about 185 whp on a DynoJet dyno completely stock. So with that as a reference, it does appear that the 6s may in fact be a bit short on power...

This doesn't mean that the "drivetrain losses" are 20% though. It's more likely that the drivetrain losses are about normal, and that the engine itself is maybe just coming up a bit short. Who knows...


BUT!!!


171 WTQ is VERY GOOD. My 99 Maxima 5MT is rated at 205 lb-ft, and will typically put down about 175 fwtq completely stock and again on a DynoJet dyno. The 6s is only about 4 wtq off of that, so it looks like the engine is really putting out more torque than 192 lb-ft. And it's BETTER (imo) to have a little more torque than expected, even if you're a little short on power.

So I don't think the engine is under performing at all. Actually, I even prefer it how it's dynoing now. I could really care less about peak horsepower since I'm hardly ever there. How often do you expect to be at 6300rpm? 99.999% of what you need is solid torque output in your daily drive RPM's from 2000-5000rpm.

So after seeing these dynos, I actually like the 6s EVEN MORE now

 

[Brillo]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

I was using the recommended 87 octane in my runs. I'm curious, seeing as the torque loss is less than HP, does that mean Mazda tuned the engine in such a way that they decided to give up HP for torque? Is that something you can do? In some ways, I would say it makes sense, as has been pointed out, torque is more valuable for most driving conditions, I don't usually shift above 5000 RPM unless I have a really good reason

 

[SteveS]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

What is the recommended rating for the 4 cyl (2.3) in other parts of the world? Recommended minimum in Australia is 95 which unfortunately is premium - having said this so far I have been using 98 - Mobile 8000.

Stephen

 

[LBJay]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

Octane is advertised differently around the world. In Australia I believe they use RON numbers, but in the US it is (RON+MON)/2. So we could be actually using the same octane gas but your numbers will be higher. (RON numbers are higher)

RON=Reasearch Octane Number
MON=Motor Octane Numbers

One question for Brillo and White6, do your cars have the ULEV emissions options?

 

[SteVTEC]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

QUOTE

Originally posted by Brillo
I was using the recommended 87 octane in my runs. I'm curious, seeing as the torque loss is less than HP, does that mean Mazda tuned the engine in such a way that they decided to give up HP for torque? Is that something you can do?[/b]

The horsepower and torque are both the same thing, really.

Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252

The dyno actually just measures torque, and then calculates horsepower based on the RPM. The losses through the rest of the drivetrain are also going to be more or less a fixed percentage as well. It doesn't vary all that much. So it's not really possible for a drivetrain to have a certain "loss" percentage for torque, and then a completely different loss percentage for horsepower. Impossible, because they're the same thing

QUOTE

Originally posted by Brillo
One question for Brillo and White6, do your cars have the ULEV emissions options?[/b]

Yeah that's a good question. ULEV emissions has been known to sap a good 5 whp out of the 00-01 Maxima's. If these are ULEV cars, I'd expect the non-ULEV ones to be pushing over 180 whp, which would be more in line with the 220 HP rating. Unfortunately, not all manufacturers "de-rate" their engine power like they should when adding on additional emissions equipment and controls.

I guess if they did that then nobody would want them, and it would discourage the purchase of cars with cleaner emissions. There's probably an exception in the rules that allows manufacturers to keep the higher rating even with stricter emissions because of this.

 

[Brillo]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

I do believe that our cars are ULEV, would that be the cat. converter? What else would they throw on it to make it ULEV?

 

[LBJay]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

Check your window sticker for ULEV under options ($100). The ULEV package is required on cars in certain areas and states. Exactly what it is I haven't been able to find out yet.

 

[Brillo]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

if you check my photo album, I have uploaded a pic of my dyno runs.

 

[prober]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

I think this is sadly alarming... Mazda is not known for having incredibly high drivetrain losses, on both dyno's i'm afraid its looking like a few ponies aren't showing up

for reference, my Probe GT w/Mazda drivetrain was rated at 165 hp and put down 146 at the wheels when I had it dynoed (only 12% loss )

also the mazdaspeed protege is rated at 170 hp and puts down 150hp (also 12% loss or somebody is lying )

mazdaspeed dyno from sport compact car

i expected the 6 to put down at least 10 more hp to the wheels, yea there are descrepencies between different dyno's but both unrelated instances are showing the same thing

 

[SteVTEC]

Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

If both brillo's and white 6s's cars are ULEV, I'd be willing to make a small wager that you'll see the extra couple of ponies show up in a regular LEV car.

 

[Draxas]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

Horsepower is definitely being lost due to the rich air/fuel mixture... Why the engine is running THAT rich at wide open throttle, who knows....

We need some 2.3L Mazda6 owners to dyno their cars to see what the drivetrain loss is with that transaxle. I know it has been posted here that the 5 speed manual in the V6 Mazda6 is a new piece.. whereas the 4 cylinder transaxle might be a carry over....


Nikolas

 

[Brillo]

Reading Topic: Reading Topic: Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno

I checked and my car is not ULEV as far as I know. I checked both my windows and the window sticker and it doesn't mention it.

 

[SteVTEC]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

QUOTE

Originally posted by Brillo
I checked and my car is not ULEV as far as I know. I checked both my windows and the window sticker and it doesn't mention it.[/b]

Well that shoots a hole in that theory.

 

[mazda6ownr]

Replying to Topic 'Brillo's Mazda6 Dyno'

I found this on edmunds.com
I hope this helps everyone
quote:
Check your window sticker for ULEV under options ($100). The ULEV package is required on cars in certain areas and states. Exactly what it is I haven't been able to find out yet.



CE1
ULEV Emissions Equipment
Includes required emissions equipment for California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont.:thumbup

Btw, great website!