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Just throwing this out there. After much research and review I've decided to go with Bridgestone Potenza 960as pole position tires for my 04m6wgn. 225/45-17's will replace the stock mich's 215/50-17"s. Hopefully lookin' better than before. Any final comments before I make the big jump?
 

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Just throwing this out there. After much research and review I've decided to go with Bridgestone Potenza 960as pole position tires for my 04m6wgn. 225/45-17's will replace the stock mich's 215/50-17"s. Hopefully lookin' better than before. Any final comments before I make the big jump?
[/b]
That is an expensive tire. For about the same price, you could get the tire that was the clear winner of the comparison test of eleven tires in Car and Driver, December 2005 (Goodyear Eagle GS-D3), in a size better suited to your 7" OEM rims (225/50R17) than 225/45R17 is. For slightly lower price, you could get the even better Yokohama ADVAN Sport in a 205/55R17 size; that size, too, is better suited to your 7" rims. The one qualifier I place on the ADVAN choice is that, compared to the OEM Michelin tire for the 6s wagon, which has load rating of 93, the 205/55R17 Yokohama has a load rating of just 91, so it should be pumped to a higher pressure (35psi) than the OEM tire's pressue of 32psi to compensate. But the Pole Position 969AS you are looking at also has a 91 load rating in the 225/45R17 size..

See this URL: Scroll down (or use text search) to "Aspect Ratio and Rim / Pan Width":
For 50-series tyres and above, the rim width is 70% of the tyre's section width, rounded off to the nearest 0.5.

For example, a P255/50R16 tyre, has a design section width of 10.04" (255mm = 10.04inces). 70% of 10.04" is 7.028", which rounded to the nearest half inch, is 7". Ideally then, a 255/50R16 tyres should be mounted on a 7x16 rim.

For 45-series tyres and below, the rim width is 85% of the tyre's section width, rounded off to the nearest 0.5.

For example, a P255/45R17 tyre, still has a design section width of 10.04" (255mm = 10.04inces). But 85% of 10.04" is 8.534", which rounded to the nearest half inch, is 8.5". Ideally then, a 255/45R17 tyre should be mounted on an 8½x17 rim.[/b]
The same site has a handy rim-size calculator.

For much less money in the same 225/45R17 size, you could get Toyoguy's beloved Toyo Proxes4, a tire I am not fond of solely because I generally think that all all season tires are a bad idea, unsafe on wet pavement, and a false bargain, but -- within the category of all season tires -- the Proxes4 is a very good one, and a true bargain.

But . . . it's your money and your car. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That is an expensive tire. For about the same price, you could get the tire that was the clear winner of the comparison test of eleven tires in Car and Driver, December 2005 (Goodyear Eagle GS-D3), in a size better suited to your 7" OEM rims (225/50R17) than 225/45R17 is. For slightly lower price, you could get the even better Yokohama ADVAN Sport in a 205/55R17 size; that size, too, is better suited to your 7" rims. The one qualifier I place on the ADVAN choice is that, compared to the OEM Michelin tire for the 6s wagon, which has load rating of 93, the 205/55R17 Yokohama has a load rating of just 91, so it should be pumped to a higher pressure (35psi) than the OEM tire's pressue of 32psi to compensate. But the Pole Position 969AS you are looking at also has a 91 load rating in the 225/45R17 size..

See this URL: Scroll down (or use text search) to "Aspect Ratio and Rim / Pan Width": The same site has a handy rim-size calculator.

For much less money in the same 225/45R17 size, you could get Toyoguy's beloved Toyo Proxes4, a tire I am not fond of solely because I generally think that all all season tires are a bad idea, unsafe on wet pavement, and a false bargain, but -- within the category of all season tires -- the Proxes4 is a very good one, and a true bargain.

But . . . it's your money and your car. :)
[/b]

Thank you friend, your reply is very informative. I'm gonna check out the ds-g3's and the toyos. Was trying to get a good "best of both world" tire as I reside in Florida now, but plans have me moving to wisconsin within a year. Different weather conditions and all, didn't want to have to buy new tires for a while after I get up there, ya know?--- Thanks again. ;]
 

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Just throwing this out there. After much research and review I've decided to go with Bridgestone Potenza 960as pole position tires for my 04m6wgn. 225/45-17's will replace the stock mich's 215/50-17"s. Hopefully lookin' better than before. Any final comments before I make the big jump?
[/b]
I dont think you could go wrong with the number 1 ranked tire in the ultra performace all season category.
It's even better the the Pirelli Pzero Nero(which I think is a really good tire) and the michelin pilot sport A/S
The bridgestone looks like it has super good wet traction too!
 

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I reside in Florida now, but plans have me moving to wisconsin within a year. Different weather conditions and all, didn't want to have to buy new tires for a while after I get up there, ya know?--- Thanks again. ;]
[/b]
If I were going to be doing any substantial amount of driving in Wisconsin in December-January-February, I'd be fitting Nokian Hakkas or Hankook Ice Bear W300s for the duration, and switch back to three-season tires when the threat subsides. :)

the ultra performace all season category.
. . .
The bridgestone looks like it has super good wet traction too!
[/b]
Talking about "the ultra performance all season category" and introducing the phrase "super good wet traction" in the same discussion is equivalent to discussing the best really short center in professional basketball or the best really slow wide receiver in professional football. :cheers:
 

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Getting a 9.3 for wet traction is pretty good since nothing even score anything higher then a 8.7 on the comparo...
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresult....jsp?type=UHPAS
The tire was built on wet traction at there number 1 goal.... look at all the grooves to pump the water out!!
I couldn't find a tire with better water traction available!
And it litterly smoked every tire in all the categories in the comparo!! From dry, wet and even noise!! Amazing!
 

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Getting a 9.3 for wet traction is pretty good since nothing even score anything higher then a 8.7 on the comparo...
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresult....jsp?type=UHPAS
The tire was built on wet traction at there number 1 goal.... look at all the grooves to pump the water out!!
I couldn't find a tire with better water traction available!
And it litterly smoked every tire in all the categories in the comparo!! From dry, wet and even noise!! Amazing!
[/b]
The Tire Rack test results are very useful, because the tests are carried out under controlled conditions by objective professionals with no axe to grind. The Tire Rack user reviews are completely worthless trash: you have no clue whatsoever who the "reviewers" are, or what they are comparing to, and the 16-year-old who has 15 miles of driving under his belt has a "vote" equal to the 50-year-old with 30 years of autocrossing under his.

A tire built with wet traction as the maker's number one goal is useless on snow, and would not be called an all-season tire. In fact, Bridgestone, with headquarters in Japan, cannot sell the Potenza 960AS in its home market, because all season tires are illegal in Japan (and much of the rest of the world) for safety reasons.

In order for an all season tire to have traction on snow, it must "stick" to the snow, which, under pressure from the tire, is water at the interface between the tread and the snow surface. (The actual mechanism is that the snow sticks to the tread in the first revolution, then on the next revolution the adhered snow on the tread sticks to the snow on the pavement, in the same manner as snow sticks to itself when you roll a snowman.) On wet pavement, water adheres to the tread of an all season tire in the same manner that snow sticks to the tread in snowy conditions. That film of water on the tread acts as a lubricant that interferes with traction (braking) on wet roads.

In contrast, three season tires have tread compounds that shed water from the contact patch between the tread and the pavement rather than retaining it as all season tires do. A famous 1950's commercial showed that it is possible to strike a match on the pavement surface immediately after a (three season) tire has passed over it.

As for the "grooves to pump water out," you must distinguish between driving when it is raining, and driving on wet pavement. All major highways, and most city streets, are crowned (high in the middle, and low on the sides) to drain water on the pavement quickly to the gutters. Grooves in the tread are temporary storage areas for water displaced by the tire on the pavement (and, ideally, moving within the grooves to a place outside of the track). However, when there is no free water to be displaced, no standing water but just a wet surface, the tread design performs no function. If I am driving on a wet road, yes, I do want a tread pattern to displace the standing water I will occasionally encounter. But if there is too much water on the surface any tire will hydroplane. There is only so much water any tire physically can store temporarily in the voids of its tread until it is expelled out the sides.

Put not your faith in tread designs, then; concentrate instead on the chemical composition of the tread compound, whether it adheres to, or sheds, water that it rolls over on the surface of the pavement.
 

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Well I never stated that a all season tire should be good in the snow, What I was trying to imply was that the potenza RE960AS has excellent wet and dry traction.....A lot of people that used it, gave it a good rating (as word of mouth must have some merrit!) The buyer is lookin for a tire that is "best for both worlds" and running snow tires in the rain and summer doesnt sound too feasable(Soft compound). I beleive he is only lookin for one set of tires to do it all.
Tire rack testing (as you can see its not bad in the dry and really shines in the rain)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=72

and its ice capability isn't too bad at all...it gave the BLIZZAK LM-25 a close run for performance!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=80
 

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Well I never stated that a all season tire should be good in the snow, What I was trying to imply was that the potenza RE960AS has excellent wet and dry traction.....A lot of people that used it, gave it a good rating (as word of mouth must have some merrit!) The buyer is lookin for a tire that is "best for both worlds" and running snow tires in the rain and summer doesnt sound too feasable(Soft compound). I beleive he is only lookin for one set of tires to do it all.
Tire rack testing (as you can see its not bad in the dry and really shines in the rain)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=72

and its ice capability isn't too bad at all...it gave the BLIZZAK LM-25 a close run for performance!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=80
[/b]
If a tire does not have some snow traction, it is not an all season tire. Snow traction is what makes an otherwise "non all season" tire an all season tire, by definition.

The goals of making a tire snow capable and maximizing its wet traction are diametrically opposed.

To make a tire that stops well on wet pavement, the tread compound is made to shed water. That way, the contact patch between tread and pavement is as dry as possible, which gives the maximum friction.

To give a tire snow capability, the tread must adhere to water (which is what snow is), not shed it; if it did not adhere to water, the tire would spin on the snow. The Tire Rack test you linked to tests all season tires vs. other all season tires. As I noted in an earlier post in this thread, that kind of comparison is like arguing about who is the best really short professional basketball center.

The all-season tire is therefore a poor compromise, and is neither a good summer tire, nor a good winter tire.
http://www.thetiresguide.com/
[/b]
 

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:huh:
Okay I give up!! What tire do you recommend for barrett???
I beleive the Potenza RE960AS pole position was a good choice... for dry, wet, and light snow duty.

Quote:
Thank you friend, your reply is very informative. I'm gonna check out the ds-g3's and the toyos. Was trying to get a good "best of both world" tire as I reside in Florida now, but plans have me moving to wisconsin within a year. Different weather conditions and all, didn't want to have to buy new tires for a while after I get up there, ya know?--- Thanks again. ;]


I believe he is looking one set of tire "best of both world".
Edited! typed in the wrong tire!
 

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:huh:
Okay I give up!! What tire do you recommend for barrett???
I beleive the Potenza RE050A pole position was a good choice... for dry, wet, and light snow duty.
I believe he is looking one set of tire "best of both world".
[/b]
Barret's tentative choice was the 960AS, not the RE050A.
If he was looking for a unicorn, would you insist he must get a unicorn, even though unicorns are mythical?
The "best of both worlds" is a chimera. There is no such animal. Probably the closest you can get is either of twoNokian tires, the NRZ on the biased-toward-wet-performance side, and the WR on the biased-toward-snow-traction side, but Nokian would be quick to tell you that neither is a substitute for the other.

Either you get a tire that has a greater than minimal level of snow capability.

Or you get a tire that brakes well on wet pavement.

Either. Or.

Most of the world recognizes that you cannot get both, and enforces safety instead of belief in the Tooth Fairy.
 

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A tire built with wet traction as the maker's number one goal is useless on snow, and would not be called an all-season tire. In fact, Bridgestone, with headquarters in Japan, cannot sell the Potenza 960AS in its home market, because all season tires are illegal in Japan (and much of the rest of the world) for safety reasons.[/b]
Wow, all seasons are banned throughout most of the world!?
 
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