[mpulse1]

Just went out to grab a bite for lunch and bring it back to work. Stupid @#[email protected]# car threw a CEL... I've got a call into the dealership to have her looked at. Appears to be running fine, but there was some fluctuation in idle rpm (beyond normal fast idling) when I first started it.

with 1290 miles the car should not be doing this...

Oh, and I doubt it's the gas cap as I've put 120miles since last filling up.

 

[Altersys]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Also sounds like a loose vacuum connection

-Alt

 

[mpulse1]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Hmm... I might grab a few minutes here and see if I can find anything loose or not on...

 

[mpulse1]

Reading Topic: another CEL

saw a little itty bitty hose coming off of what appears to be the throttle body that wasn't attached to anything. Attaching it to what it appears to go to didn't fix anything.... I really need to get the factory shop manual. I've got one for my old 626 and it's invaluable.

 

[mpulse1]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Wow, I must be a post whore...

Here's the story. It was the vacuum line that Alt mentioned. This is a problem that Mazda is aware of as they've already developed a kit to fix the problem. Apparently the vacuum line is too short for the amount of travel the engine goes through under WOT torque. I spoke with the tech and the service manager and the part is being overnighted from Mazda. According to the tech, who spoke with Mazda about this, I was lucky. Aparently some vehicles have broken the plastic stem (on the firewall side) that the vacuum line connects to.

I should be able to get it fixed on Monday after work. Yipee.

 

[Simple_Man]

Replying to Topic 'another CEL'

Could you advise whether this is the 6 cyl or the 4 cyl model?

 

[mpulse1]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Sorry, it's a V6.

 

[kyler13]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Did you ask if Mazda intends to recall for this or will they just fix it "as needed"?

 

[mpulse1]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Recalls are typically made for problems that are a potential vehicle safety issue. My understanding is that the worst that happens is the vehicle run rough.

I'm going to assume that Mazda's plans for dealing with it are to have the new longer vacuum line at the factory so all new vehicles have it, and those that have the shorter line will be replaced when the owner takes the vehicle in when the CEL goes on.

This may not even happen on all V6 equiped cars as there's a +/- 15% variability in powertrain mount stiffness (this is caused by natural variations in a rubber compound, and is not from a lack of engineering talent). So if someone has a V6 with really stiff bushings in their roll restrictor, this probably will never be a problem for them.

 

[LBJay]

Reading Topic: another CEL

This would be covered under what is called a TSB, Technical Service Bulletin. Problems that are discovered to affect a range of VINs or all cars are looked at and the solutions are printed up and sent to dealers.

Some problems may not affect all cars. So if you experience the problem, the dealer hopefully knows about the TSB and has the solution. But some dealers are not very good at keeping up with TSBs.

 

[kyler13]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Seeing that I have not even ordered yet, I would probably be okay (unless I get something on the lot) but that's not likely with what I'm looking for. With TSBs, I imagine the owner could request that the dealer repair the potential problem at no cost? I think shelling out $20-25k entitles me to have it fixed, but when does logic apply to dealer service.

 

[SteVTEC]

Replying to Topic 'another CEL'

QUOTE

Originally posted by mpulse1
This may not even happen on all V6 equiped cars as there's a +/- 15% variability in powertrain mount stiffness (this is caused by natural variations in a rubber compound, and is not from a lack of engineering talent).[/b]

+/- 15% sorta seems like pretty lose specs. True, that wouldn't be an engineering issue, but rather a bean counter issue on how much the engineers are allowed to spend on engine mounts. The tighter the specs, the more expensive the part. So it looks like these are just cheapo engine mounts with lots of variation in them - enough to cause problems on some cars. hmmmmm....


Hopefully Mazda will consider tightening the specs of the engine mounts for the 04's.

 

[LBJay]

Replying to Topic 'another CEL'

QUOTE

Originally posted by kyler13

With TSBs, I imagine the owner could request that the dealer repair the potential problem at no cost?[/b]

As long as the car is in warranty all TSBs repairs are at no cost.

 

[mpulse1]

Replying to Topic 'another CEL'

QUOTE

Originally posted by SteVTEC


            QUOTE

Originally posted by mpulse1
This may not even happen on all V6 equiped cars as there's a +/- 15% variability in powertrain mount stiffness (this is caused by natural variations in a rubber compound, and is not from a lack of engineering talent).[/b]

+/- 15% sorta seems like pretty lose specs. True, that wouldn't be an engineering issue, but rather a bean counter issue on how much the engineers are allowed to spend on engine mounts. The tighter the specs, the more expensive the part. So it looks like these are just cheapo engine mounts with lots of variation in them - enough to cause problems on some cars. hmmmmm....


Hopefully Mazda will consider tightening the specs of the engine mounts for the 04's.[/b][/quote]

The +/-15% is an industry wide accepted tolerance on natural rubber stiffness.

I'd have to talk with one of our chemists, but I believe the +/-15% comes from two sources. The first is that being natural rubber, there is a certain amount of natural variation. The second deals with the difficulty in mixing natural rubber compounds.

When designing engine mounts we take into account that +/-15% when doing gross motion analysis of the powertrain. Most of that is to make sure nothing bangs into anything else under the various load conditions.

 

[heckler]

Reading Topic: another CEL

My cel came on the other day and it turned out to be the hose problem. Anyone know if a tsb has been issued yet? The light has gone out but I'm still planning on bringing the car in on monday and dont want them give me a funny look when I tell them it's a known problem.

 

[DennyA]

Reading Topic: another CEL

Nobody responded to heckler here... I had the CEL come on my day-old V6. :-( Hooray, new car, now park it. Grrr.

What does the hose in question do? Is there any damage going on from driving it with in that shape? (If indeed it is the hose; gonna go look.)

Meanwhile, the new 6 gets to rest in the garage till Monday when I can contact the dealer. Sigh...

 

[heckler]

Reading Topic: Reading Topic: another CEL

I just reconnected the hose and the light eventually went away. I think some said it was the idle air control valve. There are pics and more info in this thread.

 

[Altersys]

Reading Topic: Reading Topic: another CEL

Nah, I was wrong. It's not the IACV, it's the EGR system. Not surprising that the CEL would come on... pollutants may increase (a big no no- high priority for ECU error codes).

-Alt

 

[speed6]

Reading Topic: Reading Topic: another CEL

I had mine come on on saturday afternoon. I have a 4cyl AT by the way. I drove it to the dealer and he said it was the third Mazda6 he'd seen with a cel in the past 2 weeks. He said the other two were loose vacuum lines from the MAP sensor. Hopefully mine will be the same. Ill find out tomorrow.

 

[DennyA]

Reading Topic: Reading Topic: another CEL

Went to the dealer today and they ordered me the new EGR hose retrofit kit. Mazda overnights them to the dealers -- nice. I'll be getting it in tomorrow, and they'll reset the CEL. It'll be nice to lose that yellow light on the dash.

heckler,

Weird that your light went away -- I thought they'd have to reset the CEL on the engine computer?