[Wstar5721]

I don't think I am the only one who feels that Mazda has played the Mazda 6 trump card a bit early. We are all waiting in agony; and us North Americans are waiting even longer for the hatch and wagon. You'd think that if Mazda was going to release any information at all about the car, they'd do something to tickle our toes to make sure that we continue to believe that the car was worth the wait. However, recently, I felt as if Mazda wasn't doing its part to ward off the growth of apathy towards this car. Besides the redesign of the site, of course.

The Mazda 6 is important for Mazda, and they can't (won't) blow it, right? I was browsing through the Motor Trends site today, out of boredom, and actually came across a pop-up ad for the Mazda 6. Now I'm no fan of pop-up ads (far from it); but I'm excited. It doesn't tell me anything that I don't already know, but now I know that Mazda is starting (albeit slowly) their advertising campaign.

We've seen the pictures of the 6 and have read Steve6er's rave review - maybe advertising will help to spread enthusiasm for this car.

With this in mind, what do you think would make an awesome advertisement (in all types of media) for this car?

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

You are focusing on a diffeicult marketing aspect for Mazda. I bet they don't like the situation they're in more than you do...

They have a great product, ready to be marketed. But in order to do so, they must be able to build the sufficient number of them. To do this, they must convert their Flat Rock factory. Also, due to import restrictions, they aren't allowed to import cars from Japan until then...that's why you guys have to wait. It's not because of Mazda, but because of your government.

If Europe put the same demands "build them here or don't sell them" on Mazda, I bet we wouldn't be able to get them very soon either...

But the problem now is that the car exists and is known among the early adopters. This starts to build up expectations. If Mazda at this time were to go for the big ad campaign, they would run into problems. Marketing stirs up the customers willing to buy a car TODAY, not in several months. And then they would have blown their marketing money without selling very many vehicles.

When the Sedan is launched, you will see more of Mazda. But even then, they have to be careful - they can't launch the entire body program. Because they can't sell them to you (poor) guys until perhaps Q2 next year.

Anyway, have patience. I promise - this car is worth it. I would bike the entire winter rather than buying another car that is not the Mazda6. (Fortunately, I don't have to...my car arrives as planned in October...)

Steve

 

[applejax]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by Steve 6er

Also, due to import restrictions, they aren't allowed to import cars from Japan until then...that's why you guys have to wait. It's not because of Mazda, but because of your government.[/b]

Please expand. Is this just a Japanese restriction? I was under the impression that VW's, for example, were manufactured in Germany.


QUOTE

But the problem now is that the car exists and is known among the early adopters. This starts to build up expectations. If Mazda at this time were to go for the big ad campaign, they would run into problems. Marketing stirs up the customers willing to buy a car TODAY, not in several months. And then they would have blown their marketing money without selling very many vehicles.[/b]

Remember, also, that companies (such as Jordache) had immense success bombarding advertisements months before the product actually came out. The major difference is that Mazda doesn't need interest from retailers (where this method has proven succesful); but more information on the '6 would definitely have a postive effect, IMO. The '6 is designed more for an enthusiast crowd. Most people have an idea that they are going to buy a car far in advance of their actual purchase. Now, with that in mind, I would think an enthusiast might even be prone to wait for a product such as the '6, rather than make a "quicker" purchase, such as they might have normally done.

In summary, personally, I don't think people are ready to buy a car "today". People are ready to buy a car "in a few months". With some exceptions, of course. And for those enthusiasts who are ready to buy today, more marketing on the '6 might influence them to wait.

 

[applejax]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

Oh, and one more tidbit. Mazda has pop up ads (as mentioned) that start off by saying "No Waiting" - referring to their 220hp V6.

All I can do right now is wait!!

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by applejax


            QUOTE

Originally posted by Steve 6er

Also, due to import restrictions, they aren't allowed to import cars from Japan until then...that's why you guys have to wait. It's not because of Mazda, but because of your government.[/b]

Please expand. Is this just a Japanese restriction? I was under the impression that VW's, for example, were manufactured in Germany.


QUOTE

But the problem now is that the car exists and is known among the early adopters. This starts to build up expectations. If Mazda at this time were to go for the big ad campaign, they would run into problems. Marketing stirs up the customers willing to buy a car TODAY, not in several months. And then they would have blown their marketing money without selling very many vehicles.[/b]

Remember, also, that companies (such as Jordache) had immense success bombarding advertisements months before the product actually came out. The major difference is that Mazda doesn't need interest from retailers (where this method has proven succesful); but more information on the '6 would definitely have a postive effect, IMO. The '6 is designed more for an enthusiast crowd. Most people have an idea that they are going to buy a car far in advance of their actual purchase. Now, with that in mind, I would think an enthusiast might even be prone to wait for a product such as the '6, rather than make a "quicker" purchase, such as they might have normally done.

In summary, personally, I don't think people are ready to buy a car "today". People are ready to buy a car "in a few months". With some exceptions, of course. And for those enthusiasts who are ready to buy today, more marketing on the '6 might influence them to wait.

[/b][/quote]

Yes, as far as I have understood, this is a question of restricting japanese companies' activities in the US.

Mazda doesn't have the financial strenght to bombard with ads months in advance, if they could, they might. But still: you miss those who are going to buy today.

You are right that many people start looking for their new car months in advance. But you take a risk of damaging your brand if you can't deliver what you market today.

/Steve

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by applejax


            Oh, and one more tidbit.  Mazda has pop up ads (as mentioned) that start off by saying "No Waiting" - referring to their 220hp V6.

All I can do right now is wait!![/b]

Very bad copy in that ad, then. <g> I am a copywriter, and I would be out of a job if I did that...:rant:

 

[applejax]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by Steve 6er


            QUOTE

Originally posted by applejax


            QUOTE

Originally posted by Steve 6er

Also, due to import restrictions, they aren't allowed to import cars from Japan until then...that's why you guys have to wait. It's not because of Mazda, but because of your government.[/b]

Please expand. Is this just a Japanese restriction? I was under the impression that VW's, for example, were manufactured in Germany.[/b][/quote]


Yes, as far as I have understood, this is a question of restricting japanese companies' activities in the US.
/Steve[/b][/quote]

What kind of bullpuckies is this? Why?

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by applejax


            QUOTE

Originally posted by Steve 6er


            QUOTE

Originally posted by applejax


            QUOTE

Originally posted by Steve 6er

Also, due to import restrictions, they aren't allowed to import cars from Japan until then...that's why you guys have to wait. It's not because of Mazda, but because of your government.[/b]

Please expand. Is this just a Japanese restriction? I was under the impression that VW's, for example, were manufactured in Germany.[/b][/quote]


Yes, as far as I have understood, this is a question of restricting japanese companies' activities in the US.
/Steve[/b][/quote]

What kind of bullpuckies is this? Why? [/b][/quote]

It's a way to make sure not all money leaves your country. The profit still does, but when the cars are built in US, it gives a lot of work to many people there... (On the other hand, Mazda is controlled by an american company - som at least a third of Mazdas expected earnings go back the other way...)

US is many times talking about the importance of free trade, but don't always deliver the same... Trade regulations aren't helping the world very much...and it makes you have to wait longer for your car.

Now, I could be wrong about this, but it is my perception of it. Correct me, anyone, if I'm wrong.

/Steve

 

[kenoka]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

Steve, let me give you the other side of the story. The only reason that the US has adopted any protectionist trade schemes with Japan is in reaction to decades, I repeat decades of Japan having the most arcane protectionist trade practices in the world. Their trade practices have been one of the major secrets to their success. Please nobody take this as racist Japan bashing. I'm Japanese American and proud to be.
Let's look at the case of TVs. Back in the 50's, the US was the premier maker of Black and White TVs. We wanted to export these to Japan. Japan says no, you can't import these to our country. Our people will only buy TVs from Japanese companies. So they are forced to license the technology to Japanese companies. Several years later Japanese companies start dumping Black and White TVs on the US market below cost. Very soon US companies don't make BW TVs anymore. So what they think, we have color. But it happens with color too. And the US government, which still saw Japan as a weak little country that needed coddling, did nothing to prevent it. To attain a patent in Japan takes eight years, in which time your application is public record.
What does this have to do with cars? Well it has become much better but in the past, if you as a Japanese citizen tried to buy an American car, your application for license might take months and months to process. Then you may suddenly receive a tax audit. These are the sorts of practices that made it impossible to do "fair trade" with Japan. Then the US, like Europe before it began to practice a little quid pro quo with Japan. You ease up on this, we'll ease up on that.
Finally, to the point about Japanese companies manufacturing in the US. This was done deliberately in anticipation of the US raising import tariffs on foreign made cars. It was also done to mask the trade deficit. On the ledger, a Honda made in Ohio is not an import, therefore it doesn't appear on the trade deficit. Of course a portion of the money goes toward US worker salaries, taxes, capital goods, etc. But much of the money still flows to Japan.
Sorry for the long post all...you brought back some Econ flashbacks.

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by kenoka


            Steve, let me give you the other side of the story.  The only reason that the US has adopted any protectionist trade schemes with Japan is in reaction to decades, I repeat decades of Japan having the most arcane protectionist trade practices in the world.  Their trade practices have been one of the major secrets to their success.  Please nobody take this as racist Japan bashing.  I'm Japanese American and proud to be.  
Let's look at the case of TVs.  Back in the 50's, the US was the premier maker of Black and White TVs.  We wanted to export these to Japan.  Japan says no, you can't import these to our country.  Our people will only buy TVs from Japanese companies.  So they are forced to license the technology to Japanese companies.  Several years later Japanese companies start dumping Black and White TVs on the US market below cost.  Very soon US companies don't make BW TVs anymore.  So what they think, we have color.  But it happens with color too.  And the US government, which still saw Japan as a weak little country that needed coddling, did nothing to prevent it.  To attain a patent in Japan takes eight years, in which time your application is public record.  
What does this have to do with cars?  Well it has become much better but in the past, if you as a Japanese citizen tried to buy an American car, your application for license might take months and months to process.  Then you may suddenly receive a tax audit.  These are the sorts of practices that made it impossible to do "fair trade" with Japan.  Then the US, like Europe before it began to practice a little quid pro quo with Japan.  You ease up on this, we'll ease up on that.
Finally, to the point about Japanese companies manufacturing in the US.  This was done deliberately in anticipation of the US raising import tariffs on foreign made cars.  It was also done to mask the trade deficit.  On the ledger, a Honda made in Ohio is not an import, therefore it doesn't appear on the trade deficit.  Of course a portion of the money goes toward US worker salaries, taxes, capital goods, etc.  But much of the money still flows to Japan.  
Sorry for the long post all...you brought back some Econ flashbacks.[/b]

There's always two sides to any story. But there is nothing black and white about anything. When you say that the japanese companies started dumping prices below cost - that was true. Below american companies' cost, that is. Not below the japanese companies' costs. The reason was that they had lower costs. That is called competition. However, in this case it was competition from a place US wasn't used of getting competition from.

So, how did US react to this. Not at all. And see what happened to the industries that made TV:s - they shot down. Now, the US government saw this and other similar examples as a lesson, and nowadays when an american business is threatened, like the auto industry, or the steel industry, the government protect it. How? By putting penalty duty on foreign products. This may sound logical, but it's rather like pissing in the pants when it's cold outside. It warms a bit to begin with, but then...

Right now US has put penalty duty on european steel, just to take a fresh example that pops to the top of my mind. To protect the US steel industry. What will happen? I can tell you: in ten years you will have no steel industry. The reason is that the penalty duty punishes steel industries in Europe, forcing them to become even more cost-efficient. While the US steel industries get rid of competition and does not have to evolve. This will make it tougher and tougher for the american steel industry to compete on the international market. And sooner or later the industry will die.

I've seen this happen in Sweden too. We did it with the textile industry, we did it with the shipyards...they are now gone.

I'm a big fan of free trade. It's better for everyone. It gives us better products, cheaper - and it would bring you the Mazda6 faster...

 

[kenoka]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

When you say that the japanese companies started dumping prices below cost - that was true. Below american companies' cost, that is. Not below the japanese companies' costs. The reason was that they had lower costs.[/b]

Not true. The practice known as 'dumping' is illegal in this country. It involves selling a product below your own costs. If your costs are lower and your competitors' are higher, too bad. That's the nature of capitalism. But if you dump below your own costs just to drive the other guy out of business, then that's dumping; and that's exactly what the Japanese have done time and time again. They start out dumping a product below their own costs. Why do they do this? There are two major benefits:
1. Your competitors are driven out of business.
2. You can utilize economies of scale to reduce your costs over time and eventually you will be able to sell the same product at the same price AND make a profit...without a competitor.
Neat, huh? The thing you have to ask is: why is it cheaper to buy a Japanese camera in the US than in Japan? After shipping, tax, and tariffs, you would expect to buy a domestic product cheaper right? If you go to Japan you find that the Minolta camera you can buy in the US for $200 costs $300.

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by kenoka


            QUOTE

When you say that the japanese companies started dumping prices below cost - that was true. Below american companies' cost, that is. Not below the japanese companies' costs. The reason was that they had lower costs.[/b]

Not true. The practice known as 'dumping' is illegal in this country. It involves selling a product below your own costs. If your costs are lower and your competitors' are higher, too bad. That's the nature of capitalism. But if you dump below your own costs just to drive the other guy out of business, then that's dumping; and that's exactly what the Japanese have done time and time again. They start out dumping a product below their own costs. Why do they do this? There are two major benefits:
1. Your competitors are driven out of business.
2. You can utilize economies of scale to reduce your costs over time and eventually you will be able to sell the same product at the same price AND make a profit...without a competitor.
Neat, huh? The thing you have to ask is: why is it cheaper to buy a Japanese camera in the US than in Japan? After shipping, tax, and tariffs, you would expect to buy a domestic product cheaper right? If you go to Japan you find that the Minolta camera you can buy in the US for $200 costs $300.[/b][/quote]

Yes, dumping is another thing. But it is also part of capitalism - you buy market shares. American companies do this all the time also, as do European... Now, if you keep doing it forever, that would be a crime. But noone wishes to loose money forever, do they?

Ask yourself this: If Minolta didn't make money selling that camera for 200$, then would they keep selling it?

I am a marketing guy, and I can tell you why things cost diffently on different markets. It's because of many things - but mainly because companies want to maximize earnings. If a market is prepared to pay more - then the product will be more expensive there. And also if competition is lower, the prize goes up.

If you really go to Japan to buy a camera you will find that you can do that to a price that is substantially lower than anywhere else. But you can't do it on the tourist street - you gotta go where the Japanese go...

Business strategy is a difficult thing. But it has a lot in common with warfare...:sarc

 

[MAZDAMAN]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

The whole point Kenoka is trying to make is that they WOULD keep selling it below cost, just to drive their competitors out of business. They love doing this to the American market, and have basically destroyed our domestic car companies. They also put horrid tarrifs on our cars sold in their country. But we have the last laugh, Japan is in an endless recession, they have only two independent car companies left, and all the rest are owned by Americans and Germans. Muauahahaha

 

[kenoka]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

Thanks for the backup MazdaMan. Steve, there are endless examples of the type of business practices that Japan has used. Again I'm not trying to bash too much. These are the same practices they use in Japan as well. To them business is war, so they look to win in the long run versus the short run. Their stockholders don't go up in arms if revenues and earnings aren't higher every quarter. In reality it's a very smart way to do business. The thing I have a problem with is that they have done it in our country knowing full well that those practices (price fixing, dumping, etc.) are illegal and continued to do it anyway. And they've largely gotten away with it at the cost of businesses that were unable to compete under those conditions.
Anyway, it's fun to discuss economics; one of my favorite subjects in college.

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by MAZDAMAN


            The whole point Kenoka is trying to make is that they WOULD keep selling it below cost, just to drive their competitors out of business.  They love doing this to the American market, and have basically destroyed our domestic car companies.  They also put horrid tarrifs on our cars sold in their country.  But we have the last laugh, Japan is in an endless recession, they have only two independent car companies left, and all the rest are owned by Americans and Germans.  Muauahahaha[/b]

You mean b***ard!!!

Oh, BTW, I know his point. I just like debating this issue, it is interesting.

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

QUOTE

Originally posted by kenoka


            Thanks for the backup MazdaMan.  Steve, there are endless examples of the type of business practices that Japan has used.  Again I'm not trying to bash too much.  These are the same practices they use in Japan as well.  To them business is war, so they look to win in the long run versus the short run.  Their stockholders don't go up in arms if revenues and earnings aren't higher every quarter.  In reality it's a very smart way to do business.  The thing I have a problem with is that they have done it in our country knowing full well that those practices (price fixing, dumping, etc.) are illegal and continued to do it anyway.  And they've largely gotten away with it at the cost of businesses that were unable to compete under those conditions.  
Anyway, it's fun to discuss economics; one of my favorite subjects in college.  [/b]

Yes one of my favourit subjects also. I studied japanese business strategies at the university. Mucho funo.

 

[Steve 6er]

Replying to Topic 'Advertising'

Today I got an invitation.

It was from Mazda Sweden.

They invited me to a special pre-launch of the Mazda6 two days ahead of the public launch. They said that the VIP-launch would include a meal, drinks etc.

Don't think the marketing people knew that I already signed up for one. Heck, I'm gonna go anyway - I have a feeling I paid for that meal. Again and again...

:hoho