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Discussion Starter #1
this is what they said, according to richard trinh...

It’s unfortunate that you and other Mazda 6 owners are having premature converter failure however in doing some research I have found this link in regards to the CP-E customizer you mentioned. It is explained within the link, the reason for the converter failing.



Information taken from this link.
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/about1009.html



I've Heard Leaner A/F Ratios Can Harm My Catalytic Converters!

It has been argued that a leaner A/F ratio can reduce the longevity of a Cat Converter by increasing exhaust temps...but by countering arguments, the same can happen with TOO rich an A/F ratio, as excess fuel enters the cat's, and is ignited, greatly reducing their life.

For more conversation and debate on this topic, please join the ongoing discussion at the following thread.
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?...light=catalytic



Are There Any Side Effects/Additional Changes the CP-E Unit Shows/Makes?


6. The catalytic converter life will be reduced. As you are well aware, the EPA2 regulations require that cat's last 120,000 miles. This is partially the cause of the whole "too rich" fuel mixtures in the first place. Mazda richens the mixture at higher rpm's to reduce cat temps, and thus extend their longevity. When this is then leaned out, cat temps raise, which reduces their overall lifespan. How much is it reduced? Unknown at this time. More information at...

http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=644&start=0




If anyone or Josh Adams has any questions please give us a call at 800-990-0905


Richard Anh Trinh
Performance Sales Specialist
Magnaflow Perfomance Exhaust
800.990.0905
www.magnaflow.com
 

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are you F**KING KIDDING ME?!?!?!?



HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH





magnaflow, your sales specialists are retarded. please let us talk to someone in engineering, or perhaps from the company that made the catalytic converters, a "stoich" fuel mixture (not lean, but chemically perfect) wont burn out the cats THAT fast (talking weeks here)


many people have the stock catalytic converters running and working for a VERY VERY long time even after a CPE install.


this is hillarious. why do they get their sales specialists involved with engineering issues.

i feel sorry for a good company like CPE that they got stuck with you guys.
 

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Magnaflow customer support = Wagner Motors customer support

almost sounds as if they didn't know about the application. Did they think we'd just hang the CATs on the wall and admire them?
 

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ok the cat may not die faster from lean or rich mixtures but I still say I had a good idea.
[/b]
Would cooling fins make that much of a difference since most of the air flow while moving is over the car and not under it?

If increased heat is really one of the causes, those who coated their headers should see them failing even faster.
 

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In the other thread I thought I read that the temps measured in the cats were actaully lower than stock ... Ok, I'm sick of companies passing the buck, if the A/F ratio were lean / rich enough to kill a cat in less than 1,000 miles (1/120th its designed life) it would have to be doing damage to something else in the system.
 

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Anyone find it hilarous that the magnaflow guy used 6tech links to explain his argument? I'm actually kinda of flattered.
[/b]

Crossbow, I guess the check is in the mail from Maganaflow! :laugh:
 

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I wouldn't take the response seriously, its not the full picture.

I have no idea who the representative is but most likely a support person who answers general querries.

Maganflow is a big company and they have a parent company call CarSound that does converter/muffler work.

If anything, it just muddies things so just leave things along and let CP-E deal with it.

I highly doubt that person is aware of the work done for CP-E, the contractual details, or even the engineering/materials etc.

You can't just call up 1-800 Magnaflow and say yeah, my cats are failing what gives and expect an accurate answer back...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
hey don't hate me for trying...Josh said they wouldn't even answer their phone for a week... so, I thought I'd give it a try...I won't stop trying cause I don't want to my header to collect dust (I'm about to put everything stock again); too much risk to take and I hate waiting for a resolution...furthermore,this is just not CP-E case anymore, but ours...
 

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An excerpt from random tech's web site ...

"In theory, a catalytic converter should last the life of a vehicle; it has no moving parts, the bricks are not consumed by the catalytic reaction and the cases of all original equipment converters are made of stainless steel, so rust isn’t a problem. In the real world, an excessively rich air/fuel ratio, oil or antifreeze in the exhaust system or physical damage can send a catalytic converter off to the great recycling yard in the sky.

Physical damage is the easiest to diagnose. If a converter is bounced off a curb or speed bump, or is struck by freeway flotsam, the ceramic bricks can be fractured. Once that happens, it’s just a matter of time before the bricks start rattling around inside the case, beating themselves into oblivion.

"Extremely high temperatures can result in destruction..."

Fuel, oil and antifreeze cause a different type of brick destruction. Under normal operating conditions, the catalytic process doesn’t begin until temperatures inside a converter reach 500 to 600 degrees (F). If air/fuel ratio is on target, and the exhaust is free of contaminants, internal converter temperature stays at about 1200 degrees. But when unburned fuel enters the picture, temperatures can reach 2200 degrees and either burn the precious metals out of the washcoat, or literally cause a melt down of the bricks. Extremely high temperatures can also result in destruction of the mat that's wedged between the bricks to the converter case.

Oil and antifreeze also cause elevated temperatures, but as the converter tries to burn (oxidize) these compounds, a residue, which plugs up the bricks is formed. At this point, the converter not only looses its effectiveness, it also becomes very restrictive to exhaust flow, which kills horsepower."

Just some more info ... I notice they don't mention lean mixtures at all ...
 

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When my CEL came on the temps were around 900 degrees according to the scan.......so what's the deal? Sounds like the boys at MF are trying to weasel their way out of culpability here. If you have some flawed cats, just say so, SHIT happens....

To blame it on AF, is basic BS and to use Crossbow's post to substantiate this argument is crap as well. Why don't the offer a solution to the problem. It is rather apparent to me, that they have no solution to the problem. with the majority of the 6 owners using their cat back system, I am sure they will listen if all of make enough noise!

Thanks to the boys @ CPE for all of their efforts and assurances in light of everything that has happend to date.
 

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Haha... thast funny... Magnaflow needs to step up. This has nothing to do with the mafci. Aren't there people without the mafci who can install the headers to see if theirs are failing. I wouldn't doubt that theirs go to shit as well shortly.
 

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I'd bet the farm this isn't a/f related. The cats are way further back than the stock precats, which would keep them slightly cooler than stock even if the exhaust gases were too hot- which they're not. At a 13:1 a/f ratio (which those with a MAFci kit have), internal combustion chamber temperatures are higher than stock (no excess fuel is being used as an injection cooler), but the mixture will have completed burning earlier. Thus, the gases stop burning and start cooling off sooner. The conditions here sound as close to ideal as possible for a catalytic converter. A heat rise would occur if the engine started drastically pulling timing (perhaps a totally unrelated problem), but to those with scanners, is there any indication of that? If so, catalytic converters may be the least expensive of your problems.

If anything, I'd worry about them not heating up fast enough to pass a cold-start smog test. Seriously, I really doubt this is a/f related. However, why aren't these catalytic converters failing in other applications? What else are they used on, and where? Magnaflow may be blowing smoke, but even a cheap catalytic converter should be lasting longer than theirs. The situation does deserve some attention.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
here's they're latest reply...

"Please refrain from any further contact with Magnaflow/CarSound. All companies involved in the design, development and production of the parts in question are aware of the problem and are currently investigating the situation. Your threatening e-mails direct to 1 of 3 companies involved will not solve anything. Please contact CP-E with any and all questions, concerns and updates on the situation. Jim Cates"


So, apparently, they know about the problem...whether its true or not, CP-E would let us know...as for their claim of me threatening them...its all BS...all I did is tell them that their reputation is on the line...mainly, according to Josh, they won't even answer their phones...I reiterated that to them...hopefully, the investigation will be fast and accurate now...
 
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