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Discussion Starter #1
What鈥檚 up fellas. Haven鈥檛 been on here in a very long time. My 2015 was due to be paid off next month....and just got diagnosed with engine failure. Bearing in the 2nd cyclinder. Weird thing is I kept up w oil changes. Mods include OV tune, SRI, and exhaust. Other than that just some suspension/wheel stuff. Really wouldn鈥檛 have expected any of these to shorten an engine lifespan to 80k? Getting a used engine dropped in it. I did try and find a used skyactive turbo but of course none of those readily available yet. Hope this next engine w 64k on it treats me a lot better bc I need a couple years w no car payments.
 

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There's always the bad part that gets through, or (far more likely) the part out of the wrong bin that doesn't meet tolerance requirements and leads to an early demise. GM ate a BUNCH of 5.3L V8s due to the latter during warranty; they were assembled out-of-tolerance by (likely dope-smoking) UAW members with pistons that were too small for the bores, they slapped on the cylinder walls when cold and literally destroyed themselves, many inside of 30,000 miles. Even more people got ones that were only slightly-better in their tolerance attention and made it through warranty, and the owners wound up eating those PERSONALLY. I own a truck from that time period and thankfully got one that was assembled with acceptable-tolerance parts.

One of the reasons many people (myself included) prefer Japanese and German-built vehicles is that they suffer this sort of stupidity less-frequently. But by no means does it NEVER happen. Main and rod bearing failures are frequently due to improper clearances -- which is an assembly fault -- or contamination of the oil (especially with coolant, which kills journal bearings VERY rapidly.) A failed (or bypassing due to the owner getting a "wall job" and the filter not actually being changed) oil filter will do it too as that allows foreign material downstream of the filter. There is also the potential (low risk, but not zero) that the block's saddles were out-of-true at manufacture which will lead to an early demise as well.

Then there are a few engines where there are known potential trouble spots, particularly with mains. VW's ALH engines are one have one main that has a "different" lube design which under very high stress (when cranked up well beyond OE power) or with a worn oil pump after a couple hundred thousand miles may fail due to inadequate lubrication. It's only bit a small number of people but if you're one of them then it sucks to be you. Those who know about this and have a reason to remove a cap for some reason check that one and if there's ANY sign of distress they swap it for the same design used in the others, eliminating that risk. It doesn't help that modern vehicles tend NOT to have an oil pressure GAUGE so wear-related issues that otherwise would raise your eyebrows (e.g. low oil pressure at idle), until it get REAL bad, is often not known.

I've not heard of anything like this being at issue in the SkyActiv design which is why I'm very, very interested in the analysis on this failure and images of the failed bearing(s). These engines aren't THAT new at this point and you can almost-always figure out why the failure occurred by careful inspection.

What oil were you using, on what interval, and who's filters?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Unfortunately I have no pictures currently bc I am not car savvy and don鈥檛 work on them myself. Oil change wise, first few were through Mazda as part of the purchase. After that I went to local oil change place a number of times (semisynthetic) and then to my local shop/garage for the final few. They used the recommended oil, and never indicated low oil/leaks, etc....
Here is the really coincidental/initeresting thing I have brought up to both the shop and my insurance (USAA). So first week of Sept Hurricane Dorian came up the east coast. We rented a beach house that week. There was one road on/off the island and a section of it had a pretty deep section underwater. I had no choice but go through. I took it slow and never had a stall out or anything. However the next day I got in and it started fine but I could not get it into gear (MT). Finally forced it hard enough into get and it jumped several times before I shut it off. Started back up and was fine. Went into gear no problem. Only noticeable difference was it would hesitate briefly under throttle right after gear shift. Went away after a week or so. And 2-3 wk later I hear the 鈥渃lick鈥 in the engine that is the failed bearing. I was hoping insurance would cover under water damage but no such luck...I鈥檓 at a loss? I will take pics once the old engine is out.
 

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"semi-synthetic"? There is no such thing for 0w20. And "local oil change place"? What filter did they use?

Finally forced it hard enough into get and it jumped several times before I shut it off. Started back up and was fine.
What? That makes no sense.

How deep was the water? Here's the thing on that -- the air intake is QUITE high -- right at the hood line. Odds of it being involved here are low. Clutch contamination risk, on the other hand, is high -- but that wouldn't trash the engine, and wouldn't necessarily hurt the gearbox either. It'll cause temporary trouble but nothing serious.

I'm suspicious. Main bearing failure can happen BUT it shouldn't, and if it did you DEFINITELY want to know why, especially at that low of mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I mean I can ask the shop to do an autopsy lol. But I鈥檝e talked to them about all this already and the reply was 鈥渟ometimes it just happens鈥. I wouldn鈥檛 imagine the type oil filter, or even whether 0w30 was used vs 5W20, etc...should matter to the point it would cause bearing/engine failure? They said the water incident had nothing to do w it, the mods had nothing to do w it, they change my oil so they know it wasn鈥檛 lack of that. There was no leak.
So again I asked 鈥渂ut at 80k miles?? On a Mazda hardly 5 yrs old????鈥 And again their reply was 鈥渋t happens...doesn鈥檛 always have to be a reason鈥.
So I don鈥檛 know...I mean, would Mazda be interested enough to request the engine be delivered to them to analyze it?? Doubt it if this is such a rare event. Times like these I wish I knew a lot more about engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I mean I can ask the shop to do an autopsy lol. But I鈥檝e talked to them about all this already and the reply was 鈥渟ometimes it just happens鈥. I wouldn鈥檛 imagine the type oil filter, or even whether 0w30 was used vs 5W20, etc...shouldn鈥檛 matter to the point it would cause bearing/engine failure? They said the water incident had nothing to do w it, the mods had nothing to do w it, they change my oil so they know it wasn鈥檛 lack of that. There was no leak.
So again I asked 鈥渂ut at 80k miles?? On a Mazda hardly 5 yrs old????鈥 And again their reply was 鈥渋t happens...doesn鈥檛 always have to be a reason鈥.
So I don鈥檛 know...I mean, would Mazda be interested enough to request the engine be delivered to them to analyze it?? Doubt it if this is such a rare event. Times like these I wish I knew a lot more about engines.
 

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"semi-synthetic"? There is no such thing for 0w20. And "local oil change place"? What filter did they use?
Penzoil, Valvoline, and Castrol all have synthetic blends available in 0w20.
Most quick lube filters are generally made by Champion Labs, and they are made to manufacturers specifications. They may not be the best filter, but I highly doubt that that this is a factor

How deep was the water? Here's the thing on that -- the air intake is QUITE high -- right at the hood line. Odds of it being involved here are low.
The air intake was not OEM, it was replaced with a Short Ram Intake.
And water does not need to come in through the intake to cause problems, it could have come in via the exhaust or through submerged seals/gaskets, or even a crack in the engine assembly from rapid cooling.
 

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Good point on the SRI but most of the time if you take damage from driving through water you know about it immediately, and water down the intake via any source doesn't typically contaminate the oil -- it hydrolocks the engine. Now into the crankcase is another matter but it has to have a route to get in there.

I'd still like to know more about the wipe-out that was sufficient to make the numbers work on an engine swap instead of fixing what you already have. That implies that either saddle or crank damage was involved. This is the first failure of that sort that's come through this forum that I'm aware of.
 

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It would be very interesting to find out what exactly went wrong.
After reading about the water crossing I'm going to guess that a very small amount of moisture via condensation and or the crossing may have contaminated the oil and fried the bearing.
Did you ever get a look at the engine oil post "click"?

It's one of the most bulletproof motors I've ever owned. I've driven VW Bugs and 22R Toyota's and I owned a Buick that had the Stars Wars Buick V8. The Skyactive ranks right in there. I drive my 6 like I stole it and it just keeps going. I still haven't changed the plugs yet. I'll probably flush the transmission before I change the plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I was hoping they would comment on the look of the oil but they didn鈥檛. Insurance wouldn鈥檛 cover bc it didn鈥檛 鈥渓ock鈥 up like typical water does to it. I was praying on that one. But you can鈥檛 say that wasn鈥檛 extrememly coincidental timing....
 

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The timing is, obviously, troublesome. And yeah, typically water ingestion is an instant lock-up sort of thing (and leaves nothing to the imagination.) Post a hurricane here the road in front of my house was flooded and some jackwad kid came blasting through in a jeep. Without a snorkel. He ate a load of water and I heard it lock (!!)

Heard later through the grapevine that he actually lifted the head .... oh, and it was his Dad's Jeep :oops:
 

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There's always the bad part that gets through, or (far more likely) the part out of the wrong bin that doesn't meet tolerance requirements and leads to an early demise. GM ate a BUNCH of 5.3L V8s due to the latter during warranty; they were assembled out-of-tolerance by (likely dope-smoking) UAW members with pistons that were too small for the bores, they slapped on the cylinder walls when cold and literally destroyed themselves, many inside of 30,000 miles. Even more people got ones that were only slightly-better in their tolerance attention and made it through warranty, and the owners wound up eating those PERSONALLY. I own a truck from that time period and thankfully got one that was assembled with acceptable-tolerance parts.

One of the reasons many people (myself included) prefer Japanese and German-built vehicles is that they suffer this sort of stupidity less-frequently. But by no means does it NEVER happen. Main and rod bearing failures are frequently due to improper clearances -- which is an assembly fault -- or contamination of the oil (especially with coolant, which kills journal bearings VERY rapidly.) A failed (or bypassing due to the owner getting a "wall job" and the filter not actually being changed) oil filter will do it too as that allows foreign material downstream of the filter. There is also the potential (low risk, but not zero) that the block's saddles were out-of-true at manufacture which will lead to an early demise as well.

Then there are a few engines where there are known potential trouble spots, particularly with mains. VW's ALH engines are one have one main that has a "different" lube design which under very high stress (when cranked up well beyond OE power) or with a worn oil pump after a couple hundred thousand miles may fail due to inadequate lubrication. It's only bit a small number of people but if you're one of them then it sucks to be you. Those who know about this and have a reason to remove a cap for some reason check that one and if there's ANY sign of distress they swap it for the same design used in the others, eliminating that risk. It doesn't help that modern vehicles tend NOT to have an oil pressure GAUGE so wear-related issues that otherwise would raise your eyebrows (e.g. low oil pressure at idle), until it get REAL bad, is often not known.

I've not heard of anything like this being at issue in the SkyActiv design which is why I'm very, very interested in the analysis on this failure and images of the failed bearing(s). These engines aren't THAT new at this point and you can almost-always figure out why the failure occurred by careful inspection.

What oil were you using, on what interval, and who's filters?
Japanese and even German engines are built to a much higher standard than American engines... The chances of an engine suffering from a blown rod bearing due to flaws with engine tolerances sounds very unlikely considering the quality of these engines.

Much more likely scenario would be - constant aggressive driving, particularly short distance or when the engine is still cold, with length oil change intervals using 0w20 oil = unhappy bearings
 

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@Cdn17Sport6MT -- what's "these days"? The early 2000s are certainly in the "these days" view of many people, and Chevy had its infamous "piston slap" issues with the 5.3L V8s. There have been others, such as some of the infamous Ford diesel issues (oil cooler failures to be specific) It tends to be very engine-specific through. Then again Subaru just recalled a BUNCH of vehicles for PCV valves that can disintegrate with the pieces going into the engine and, as they said in the press release, "can cause loss of engine output." I bet the engine does indeed lose output, and quite rapidly, when the pieces of that valve wind up somewhere they don't belong!

@MazdaMoisturization - Your screeching about 0w20 oils AGAIN? C'mon dude, cut the garbage. Putting heavy stress on a cold engine is never a good idea but you're not going to alleviate that problem with oil selection. In fact if anything cold startup wear will be higher (maybe by quite a lot) if you use a heavier weight oil; studies have been done showing that a huge percentage of total engine wear happens in those first few revolutions on a cold start before oil under pressure reaches those bearings as you're relying on boundary lubrication for protection and it's massively inferior to full-film. You do nothing to speed that transition by running a heavier weight oil (in fact you extend the time for that to occur) and that exact concern is why in applications where immediate power is required (e.g. emergency generators where they must be able to deliver full output immediately on startup when utility power is lost) it's quite-common to find both pre-heat that keeps the coolant and oil warm but also a pre-lube pump that pressurizes the oil galleries before the starter turns.
 

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I really don't believe american automobiles are made to any less standard than japanese , korean or european ones. All brands have recalls, and everyone including aircraft manufacturers have odd quality issues that may crop up despite the strictest standards. I have personally seen Toyota 5SFE motors last over 300k miles without any problems but i have seen my share of sludgy 5SFEs as well. Same with Toyota's legendary 22Rs..many go above half a million miles but there are few that grenaded within 100k miles thanks to the timing chain slack. 2AZFEs had oil burn issues as well as did Honda's 1.5 turbos with oil dilution issues leading to catastrophic engine failures. And the less we talk about reliability issues of luxury euro brands the better.

Maybe OP's engine was one that slipped through. I would call mazda customer care and let them know. If nothing else it'll be documented somewhere in their system and if OP is in luck mazda may throw in a discount for a new motor.
 

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@Cdn17Sport6MT -- what's "these days"? The early 2000s are certainly in the "these days" view of many people, and Chevy had its infamous "piston slap" issues with the 5.3L V8s. There have been others, such as some of the infamous Ford diesel issues (oil cooler failures to be specific) It tends to be very engine-specific through. Then again Subaru just recalled a BUNCH of vehicles for PCV valves that can disintegrate with the pieces going into the engine and, as they said in the press release, "can cause loss of engine output." I bet the engine does indeed lose output, and quite rapidly, when the pieces of that valve wind up somewhere they don't belong!

@MazdaMoisturization - Your screeching about 0w20 oils AGAIN? C'mon dude, cut the garbage. Putting heavy stress on a cold engine is never a good idea but you're not going to alleviate that problem with oil selection. In fact if anything cold startup wear will be higher (maybe by quite a lot) if you use a heavier weight oil; studies have been done showing that a huge percentage of total engine wear happens in those first few revolutions on a cold start before oil under pressure reaches those bearings as you're relying on boundary lubrication for protection and it's massively inferior to full-film. You do nothing to speed that transition by running a heavier weight oil (in fact you extend the time for that to occur) and that exact concern is why in applications where immediate power is required (e.g. emergency generators where they must be able to deliver full output immediately on startup when utility power is lost) it's quite-common to find both pre-heat that keeps the coolant and oil warm but also a pre-lube pump that pressurizes the oil galleries before the starter turns.
Unless we are talking about 10w60 oil in -20C starting conditions, cold oil flow really isnt much of an issue at all.

But seriously though, what else could have possibly caused an engine failure on such a solid motor with such low mileage? Incidentally mines just about to hit 100K and is running smoother than ever. My concern with 0w20 is that it's not thick enough to provide adequate cushioning between moving engine parts and specifically in this case, the bearings.
 

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I really don't believe american automobiles are made to any less standard than japanese , korean or european ones. All brands have recalls, and everyone including aircraft manufacturers have odd quality issues that may crop up despite the strictest standards. I have personally seen Toyota 5SFE motors last over 300k miles without any problems but i have seen my share of sludgy 5SFEs as well. Same with Toyota's legendary 22Rs..many go above half a million miles but there are few that grenaded within 100k miles thanks to the timing chain slack. 2AZFEs had oil burn issues as well as did Honda's 1.5 turbos with oil dilution issues leading to catastrophic engine failures. And the less we talk about reliability issues of luxury euro brands the better.

Maybe OP's engine was one that slipped through. I would call mazda customer care and let them know. If nothing else it'll be documented somewhere in their system and if OP is in luck mazda may throw in a discount for a new motor.
To claim.that American engines are as well built as Japanese is simply outrageous. They are built like absolute GARBAGE. The 1
5T in the Hondas are simply an example of a brand which has not designed a new engine for almost 20 years and is just now getting into the world of Turbo DI tech...
 

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Unless we are talking about 10w60 oil in -20C starting conditions, cold oil flow really isnt much of an issue at all.

But seriously though, what else could have possibly caused an engine failure on such a solid motor with such low mileage? Incidentally mines just about to hit 100K and is running smoother than ever. My concern with 0w20 is that it's not thick enough to provide adequate cushioning between moving engine parts and specifically in this case, the bearings.
Are you really that s****d that you believe a Japanese built engine is so superior that it cannot have a failure at 80K? Including when the correct, recommended weight oil is used? You really think that anything manufactured by man is perfect? Out of 100K engine bearings produced one of them can't be out of tolerance?

Seriously, grow up.


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