[BlackXS]

I was reading up on some concept cars, particuraly the RX-8 rotary hybrid, and stumbled upon this:

http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2...d_concept_copy/

And it got me thinking... since Mazda has been aiming to expand the Rotary engine lineup once again, and this new hybrid engine may either be a big success or a flop; and assuming the first, could we possibly ever see a Rotary engine in our 6?

It may be unlikely, but it is possible. Ive talked to many people who own RX-8s about how much maitnence it is, and they say people exagerate. So if it is just slightly above the normal maitnence of a piston engine, will we ever see it implemented in a 6?

Maybe a Mazda 6 Rotary Cabriolet. :drool:

 

[ninecoronas]

Who knows. While the Rotary engine in itself is revolutionary, if it was truly that revolutionary, why isn't it implemented by more companies? Just a little food for thought.

I do not think that Mazda would put the rotary in the 6. The main reason is that the 6 is a sporty sedan while the Rx-8 is a true sports-car. However, because of the nature of the rotary, the 50/50 weight balance of the rx-8 is achieved and thus for award the name of the sports-car. However, if the rotary is placed into the 6 then the weight configuration and the entire hood and such will be altered. The power will also not be on the same scale. Then Mazda will have two vehicles running nearly two identical yet slightly difference routes. At this point in time, it is strategically unwise for Mazda to branch closer. They need to do the opposite, they need to diversify.

My 2 cents on why there won't be a rotary in the 6.

 

[Sigma]

Absolutely no way.

Not unless there's some massive improvement in Rotary technology.

I'm a big fan of Rotaries, but they do have their attributes (I wouldn't call them "problems") as any other engine that lend them to certain applications over others. And those attributes don't lend themselves to use in a family sedan.

The two primary ones being a lack of torque and rather poor gas mileage. Rotaries are exceptional engines when placed in cars that weigh 2000yo 3000lbs max. Put one in a sedan weighing 3500 and then put 4 grown people in it, and you'll have a VERY slow car. A very slow car that sucks down fuel. Personally I feel the whole gas mileage thing with the rotary is a tad overblown, as many mag tests have gotten about the same mileage out of an RX-8 as out of a G35 in their long-term testing. But, it's one thing to get 17mpg when you have a full 300hp and 250+lb/ft of torque than when you've got about half that.

No one would buy a car that's slower than the 2.3L Mazda6i but sucks about 50% more fuel than the 3.0L Mazda6s.

 

[ninecoronas]

Well also, the last time Mazda tried to implement all rotaries into their cars, they nearly went under because of the oil crisis. While there is none now, there could always be one around the corner, and this would make Mazda really wary about implementing the rotary. Now, if they put in a 3 rotor rotary that had the same mpg as a 6s or 6i or whatever, while taking away the oil guzzling properties, and the warm up times, then it would truly be revolutionary. All of that would require a lot of work though, along with money, something Mazda doesn't have a lot of to spare at the moment.

 

[Sigma]

The "oil-guzzling" and "warm up times" are two of those things that are vastly blown out of proportion.

The Rotary has to burn some oil to function. But it's not a lot by any means. Most people with Renesis' don't use any more oil than any piston engine would, most not having to add anything between changes. Those that do use oil, don't use it in any real significant quantities. It's only remarkable that you check it occassionally because oil is so pertinent to the function of the rotary and, while your piston engine can do just fine with low oil, your rotary can seize in a heartbeat.

And a rotary doesn't take any longer to warm up than a Piston engine. In fact, since it burns so much fuel at startup, it probably warms up even faster. The emissions of a Rotary, even the Renesis, suck. So to get the catalytic converter up to operating temperature early enough to pass the tests, the engine has to get really hot really fast. This was a actually a problem for Mazda and caused them to recall all sold RX-8s in the Summer of '05 because, when sitting still, the underside of an RX-8 could get so hot as to cause severe damage. The real issue with "warming up" that the Rotary has is that it can potentially (but rarely) flood when turned off before the engine has warmed up. But really this is bad for any type of engine, it's just that the Rotary shows the problem more seriously by flooding itself.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I don't even need to add oil between changes on my 13b, which is designed to use many times more oil than the Renesis.

While I would like to see more applications for the Renesis, the Mazda6 is not an appropriate one. My ideal concept would be on a stretched RX-8 or MX-5 platform(to about 180" in total length) offered in coupe, sedan, and convertible body styles called the RX-S.

 

[amp]

...and the entire hood and such will be altered. ...[/b]

afterall.... theyve crammed the six banger in there..

 

[Betelgeuse]

Putting a rotary in a 6 wouldn't offer any advantages over the current 2.3 turbo or the upcoming 3.5 duratec unless it's a vastly improved version of what's out there.

 

[BlackXS]

Well, I agree with most of what is said. The Renesis engine is inefficent and not effective for a family sedan due to fuel innefficency and low torque. But I was referring to the developing Rotary Hybrid if people read my first post, of which would be much better to be implemented in such a car. The people who own 6's already are responsible people who love their car and maintain them, while needing the added versatility of being able to take the whole family. The RX8 isnt exactly a family car, though it is nice. The lower fuel consumption of the Hybrid may make it somewhat better for uses in the 6. Maybe a two or three rotor hybrid rotary would supply the neccesary torque to push the car a little more than the V6, while the Hybrid aspect may increase MPG (though I never have truely seen any difference when actually driving on a road between Hybrids and their normal counterparts). But on second thought, if they are shoving the hybrid rotary in the 5, a heavy minivan, it should be able to pull our sedan aptly.

One thing I have overlooked is the gas/hydrogen rotary hybrid being sold soon in Japan. From what I understand, the rotarys design makes it much better for uses in hydrogen power than anything related to pistons. So perhaps that engine would jumpstart a (much needed) hydrogen revolution in automobiles soon.

Oh and, Mazda has always wanted to incorporate rotaries into about everything they have. True they did go through a crisis when their entire fleet was rotary, and oil prices skyrocketed. What I am saying now, is for Mazda to try once again to succesfully use the rotary in more than one application, because it is a versatile engine. Just because two cars would have rotaries (3 including the 5) doesnt mean they are competing. The RX8 is a sport car. The 6 is a family sedan. The 5 is a minivan.

Just my .02...

 

[chikoo]

on the contrary, i look forward for a small 2.5l v6 on the rx-8.

 

[ninecoronas]

on the contrary, i look forward for a small 2.5l v6 on the rx-8.
[/b]

+1. I would totally dig an Rx-8 or 9 with more power and less mantenance albeit, how little it is according to others.

 

[smokeU6s]

on the contrary, i look forward for a small 2.5l v6 on the rx-8.
[/b]

Dont let ZoomZoomDiva see that comment!



I think a 2rotor with Direct injeciton and a small electric motor would work well. Assuming you can keep the weight down. I've been in the Prius before... its weird how the gas engine just comes and goes though. Im perplexed as to how Mazda plans to have the rotary start and stop all the time or would it just idle when the electic motor was pulling when the engine wasnt needed???

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

Dont let ZoomZoomDiva see that comment!

[/b]

LOL! Just don't call it an RX-anything if you're going to go that route. If you want a piston powered MX-variant, I'm fine with that, but putting a piston engine in an RX- nameplate is sacrilege to the spirit of the automobile. I have no problem with a V6 powered coupe, though if you're going there, why not just use the Duratec 35? I don't see a 2.5 litre being more powerful than the Renesis and the 3.5 is a very compact engine (fits in the 3.0 space, and the 3.0 fits just fine in 2.5 litre applications).

You could use a mild hybrid like Honda where the gas engine doesn't start and stop all the time. I have to think all that starting and stopping is going to cause some long term issues somewhere.

 

[BlackXS]

Hmm... a 2 rotary with direct injection and an electric motor is a good idea. The rotary could just idle but if its coasting or something, it could use sensors or something of that sort to determine when to shut the engine off as not to flood it and such. I have a feeling if it did ever start and stop, there would be a lot of lag when you want the rotary to kick in... so maybe it should just idle.

 

[king_lam925]

No please...

 

[Mazda6sMtx]

I'd love to see a rotory in the 6. Call it the RX-6 and have it RWD. Of course it would have to be the R26B. Then you will have a real car.