[dougefresh_]

Took one log of 3rd with no meth, then one with it spraying in 3rd, 4th. You can see how much the BATs drop with the meth. My AFRs are AFU'd, and not quite sure what to make of them. ALSO, I'm getting KR while I'm spaying. Granted, just .35, but only seem to get KR when I spray the 50/50 mix of w/m. When I was just spraying water, I got zero, which makes sense. IDK what's up with that little KR... maybe just the KR sensor? Or maybe because I'm not tuned for meth, I dunno.

I don't see how a pro-tuner would advance timing to make more power if I'm already getting KR with the OTS timing. If it is just the KR sensor, I find it odd that it doesn't register any without meth. I've seen this before, and not sure what to make of it.

Happy Halloween BTW!!

 

[FORZDA 1]

Took one log of 3rd with no meth, then one with it spraying in 3rd, 4th. You can see how much the BATs drop with the meth. My AFRs are AFU'd, and not quite sure what to make of them. ALSO, I'm getting KR while I'm spaying. Granted, just .35, but only seem to get KR when I spray the 50/50 mix of w/m. When I was just spraying water, I got zero, which makes sense. IDK what's up with that little KR... maybe just the KR sensor? Or maybe because I'm not tuned for meth, I dunno.

I don't see how a pro-tuner would advance timing to make more power if I'm already getting KR with the OTS timing. If it is just the KR sensor, I find it odd that it doesn't register any without meth. I've seen this before, and not sure what to make of it.

Looks pretty normal to me when spraying a large amount (#5) meth for NO reason other than to watch the BAT come down.... You're getting the KR because you're spraying too damn much extra liquid into the CC at low rpms. Have the start set to ~10 psi and max at ~18 or so.

Drop the nozzle to size #2 or #3 and you will have much better results. I'll get around to intalling my kit in a few months and will help you out with some first-hand tuning data. 'til then, just spend another $20 on a smaller nozzle and set it up better....

 

[dougefresh_]

when I was spraying just 100% distilled water, I saw no KR, ever. Same amount of liquid :/ Do you mean with the 50/50 mix I'm not igniting all the methanol part? I thought it may be fine IF I had the DP/Mani in there, but I only have the Mani, which didn't make much of a difference. That may be more related to my load targets than anything, IDK.

 

[The Great NY]

you need to lean out your afr quite a bit. on your log spraying meth your down in the low 11's for an afr. you need to bring that up to about 11.8-12afr. thats why your getting a lil kr

when you use meth you need to be a bit leaner than without to promote a better more complete burn. once you dial in your afr to about 12, then play with timing if your not gonna run more boost.

where do you have your start spray set at? what boost pressure?


EDIT:

also, the reason you didnt get kr with 100% water is because water is non combustable and it just turns to steam. thats how it does its cooling thing for exhaust temps.



EDIT:

took another look at the logs... you may be ok at about 11.8afr. you can honestly make it leaner than that, but thats up to you after you get it to 11.8

 

[FORZDA 1]

Don't try to rationalize spraying so much meth into a mildly tuned motor. Just STOP! I'm pretty sure all the folks spraying as much meth as you have a "pretty aggressive" tune. I TOLD you that you would have problems with the meth, but you just wouldn't listen. You do know that you can bend all the rods a FU the motor if it can't burn all that meth, right? If you just MUST watch the BAT value drop, buy a CO2 kit for the intercooler itself. At least there's less chance of you popping the motor while screwing around with it!

 

[The Great NY]

his logs show KR at 5000rpms plus...so he just needs to lean out the mix some more as where its showing the KR he is hitting 11.3's of an AFR. he needs to get that above 11.6 and he'll be fine. he's just in need of more fine tuning when under meth.

its not the boost pressure that needs adjusting.. its the fuel ratio. as he is at max boost WAYY before 5k if he is on it between 3k-5k

 

[dougefresh_]

Don't try to rationalize spraying so much meth into a mildly tuned motor. Just STOP! I'm pretty sure all the folks spraying as much meth as you have a "pretty aggressive" tune. I TOLD you that you would have problems with the meth, but you just wouldn't listen. You do know that you can bend all the rods a FU the motor if it can't burn all that meth, right? If you just MUST watch the BAT value drop, buy a CO2 kit for the intercooler itself. At least there's less chance of you popping the motor while screwing around with it!

I think you've been spending too much time on msf. I plan on getting an aggressive pro-tune with meth, but may drop to an 4 or 3 nozzle first, I'm not sure yet. I haven't even been using meth, other than when I had to fix the toggle switch, and take a couple 'un-tuned' logs to show a comparison. IDK what you're talking about with watching BATs drop and getting a CO2 kit?? I didn't know I could bend all rods from un-burnt meth. Haven't read that or come across it yet in a thread yet. I haven't looked into it much, and if I get a pro-tune, I'm not going to bother spraying/tuning meth in the meantime.

And speak for yourself about popping your motor while messing with things......

 

[The Great NY]

I think you've been spending too much time on msf. I plan on getting an aggressive pro-tune with meth, but may drop to an 4 or 3 nozzle first, I'm not sure yet. I haven't even been using meth, other than when I had to fix the toggle switch, and take a couple 'un-tuned' logs to show a comparison. IDK what you're talking about with watching BATs drop and getting a CO2 kit?? I didn't know I could bend all rods from un-burnt meth. Haven't read that or come across it yet in a thread yet. I haven't looked into it much, and if I get a pro-tune, I'm not going to bother spraying/tuning meth in the meantime.

And speak for yourself about popping your motor while messing with things......

your not going to bend rods due to unburnt meth. if thats the case you would bend rods by normal unburnt fuel in the cylinders. the most that will happen in an unburnt fuel (meth or regular 93 octane as both are just fuel) is you get a backfire which is common for running too rich. as long as your timing is good and under control meth will do no more than regular 93 octane if used too much.

IE-decrease power by overfueling, black soot out the pipes due to overfueling, fouled plugs due to overfueling, and in the FAR reach of issues of overfueling you could get cylinder washout

none of the above are isolated to just meth. its part of the issues with overfueling for any kind of fuel.

the water evaporates in the cylinder. only way water will have to much injected is if you are spraying ONLY water with the biggest nozzle known to man, lol or you pump is working just good enough to make water fall into the intake stream rather than atomize. even then.......the water will get dispersed a lil due to the air moving.

IMO just spend a lil more time on your fueling curve while under the spray and you will have no issues once thats worked out. you have the failsafes so your even further ahead of the game. ive used meth on a couple cars (my cars and some friends) and have tuned them all with no issue. just takes some finesse and patience.

 

[dougefresh_]

you need to lean out your afr quite a bit. on your log spraying meth your down in the low 11's for an afr. you need to bring that up to about 11.8-12afr. thats why your getting a lil kr

when you use meth you need to be a bit leaner than without to promote a better more complete burn. once you dial in your afr to about 12, then play with timing if your not gonna run more boost.

where do you have your start spray set at? what boost pressure?


EDIT:

also, the reason you didnt get kr with 100% water is because water is non combustable and it just turns to steam. thats how it does its cooling thing for exhaust temps.



EDIT:

took another look at the logs... you may be ok at about 11.8afr. you can honestly make it leaner than that, but thats up to you after you get it to 11.8

I have a D05 (or M05.. 5gal/hr at any rate) nozzle, with start spray set to 6 PSI, and max spray at 15 PSI. I need to get the car tuned without meth first, but I'm thinking of getting her pro-tuned. I want a solid tune w/ no meth, and then a pretty aggressive tune for meth. Not sure if I should stick with the D05 or go with a 4 or 3 size nozzle . I want to be running 19-20 PSI on the NON-meth map, and 21-22 PSI with the meth map.

 

[FORZDA 1]

..... IDK what you're talking about with watching BATs drop and getting a CO2 kit??

My point was that you can run and external CO2 spray onto the IC and get the large BAT drop.

I didn't know I could bend all rods from un-burnt meth. Haven't read that or come across it yet in a thread yet. I haven't looked into it much, and if I get a pro-tune, I'm not going to bother spraying/tuning meth in the meantime.

Yes, you can spray too much meth/water (or anything else for that matter) that can lead to hydro-lock. There's at least one confirmed case of this happening resulting in all 4 rods bent. My point is not blanket scare statements with no basis in fact. The fact is that you must be very careful when spraying any extra liquid into the intake stream. You went to great lengths to "protect" the motor with the extra spray failsafe when spraying, but what if the nozzle head falls off or the solenoid fails to close fully or otherwise leaks?

Do you spray at low boost regardless of throttle position, or have you set it up so you are at WOT when it starts spraying? IMO, if you're spraying ahead of the TB, you REALLY need it to be full open before spraying.

And speak for yourself about popping your motor while messing with things......

Ok

 

[dougefresh_]

My point was that you can run and external CO2 spray onto the IC and get the large BAT drop.

yup, I know. I want to get her tuned for meth tho. I'm going to have to find a place w/ a tuner that I trust... not an easy task!

Yes, you can spray too much meth/water (or anything else for that matter) that can lead to hydro-lock. There's at least one confirmed case of this happening resulting in all 4 rods bent. My point is not blanket scare statements with no basis in fact. The fact is that you must be very careful when spraying any extra liquid into the intake stream. You went to great lengths to "protect" the motor with the extra spray failsafe when spraying, but what if the nozzle head falls off or the solenoid fails to close fully or otherwise leaks?

Nozzle falls off, you're in trouble, but your should notice that asap. FS trips if there's a problem with the solenoid, but IDK what it does if it doesn't fully close. I didn't think that 11.3X was so rich that it was causing some minor KR. That definitely surprised me. Again, I haven't done anything with it as I wanted to get the DP in first, and now I gotta order an 02 sensor. I'm also considering my options here. I also need 2 new fender liners for $150 :/

Do you spray at low boost regardless of throttle position, or have you set it up so you are at WOT when it starts spraying? IMO, if you're spraying ahead of the TB, you REALLY need it to be full open before spraying.

Labonte Stage 2 goes is triggered by boost only, so yeah, no throttle position input. However, the way I drive, it won't be spraying often >6 PSI while NOT under wot. I usually fart around, or go WOT... usually a combo of the two.

Ok

Also, forgot to mention, I emptied my OCC for the first time (installed when I was still having fuel pump problems, so it wasn't way overdue). It has raw fuel in it, but I thought that was from when that busted used fuel rail I put in flooded my engine to all hell (afrs = 8). My mech said the car was ridiculously flooded, and to change the oil within 100 miles, but he wanted me to drive a bit and burn some off first.