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Discussion Starter #1
So, I've decided I'm going with some Niche Surges. I like the resemblance to the CVT's and they're around the price range I was trying to spend, but the only thing is, I like the concave look and the surges only come in 20x8.5 or 20x10.5 (for 20's). I don't want to run a staggered setup, so will I be fine doing 20x10.5 +45 with 245/35/20 all around? Will I have any problems with this setup on stock suspension? I'm all stock at the moment but am planning to lower soon after my wheels are on and I also don't mind having to roll -if needed- when I lower. Thanks in advance!
 

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2 things:

1) 20x10.5 is gonna need more than a +45 offset, especially if you're lowering. +45 is the stock offset, and stock rims are only 7.5 wide. I run 20x8.5 +45 and they fit about as perfectly as I think a rim can on these cars. Here's mine (I'm on stock suspension) :




2) 245/35 on 10.5" rims are going to be fairly stretched. Don't know if that's the look you're going for, but personally I don't see any benefit (visual or performance) to stretching tires like that. However, if that's the look you want, and the repercussions don't bother you, don't let me stop you :)
 

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2 things:

1) 20x10.5 is gonna need more than a +45 offset, especially if you're lowering. +45 is the stock offset, and stock rims are only 7.5 wide. I run 20x8.5 +45 and they fit about as perfectly as I think a rim can on these cars. Here's mine (I'm on stock suspension) :




2) 245/35 on 10.5" rims are going to be fairly stretched. Don't know if that's the look you're going for, but personally I don't see any benefit (visual or performance) to stretching tires like that. However, if that's the look you want, and the repercussions don't bother you, don't let me stop you :)
Question, I've been contemplating upgrading the wheels to 20x8.5, actually the same wheels you have because of the rotary forging and the fact that they're still lighter than the factory 19" wheels. Has the ride quality changed at all? And since I'm guessing the wider tires are a bit heavier than the 19" 225 tires, do you notice any loss of acceleration off the line? I'm still leaning towards going with 19x8.5, but could make the switch if the penalty for upsizing to 20's isn't much.
 

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Has the ride quality changed at all?
Yes and no. With 20s you have fairly thin tires (I'm on 255/35/20) so you feel more of the bumps and rocks than the 19s, but it's not incredibly noticeable. Honestly, I like the bit of road noise.

However, basically any tire out there is better than the OEM Dunflops, so the ride is quieter and handling is amazing on the Falkens I got.

And since I'm guessing the wider tires are a bit heavier than the 19" 225 tires, do you notice any loss of acceleration off the line?
I haven't actually weighed the tires to compare to OEM, but I know From This Post that the OEM ones are about 30lbs. I would wager mine are give or take 5 pounds from that, but that's not much in the grand scheme of things.

Even if the tires each weighed 10 lbs more, that's "only" 40 lbs of difference from OEM, so you'd never actually feel that performance-wise.

I'm still leaning towards going with 19x8.5, but could make the switch if the penalty for upsizing to 20's isn't much.
Only thing to remind you here is that the jump from 19 to 20s in terms of tires is where you might be bit. It's fairly pricey to find good quality tires that are 35/R20, and that 35 makes you much more apt to damage from potholes.
 

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Only thing to remind you here is that the jump from 19 to 20s in terms of tires is where you might be bit. It's fairly pricey to find good quality tires that are 35/R20, and that 35 makes you much more apt to damage from potholes.
Yea, that is what I would be most worried about. Some of the roads I drive in Los Angeles are horrid and I've hit some potholes that it felt like metal to metal contact. I think that I will stick with 19's just to have that extra cushion. lol
 

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Yea, that is what I would be most worried about. Some of the roads I drive in Los Angeles are horrid and I've hit some potholes that it felt like metal to metal contact. I think that I will stick with 19's just to have that extra cushion. lol
*sigh* I know.

You should come to New England some time lol. I've already bent a rim once really bad (luckily it was repairable) and put a good bubble in one of my tires. But that's only 2 incidents over 5 years and 130k miles - guess I won't complain since they look so nice! :thumbup:
 

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So, I've decided I'm going with some Niche Surges. I like the resemblance to the CVT's and they're around the price range I was trying to spend, but the only thing is, I like the concave look and the surges only come in 20x8.5 or 20x10.5 (for 20's). I don't want to run a staggered setup, so will I be fine doing 20x10.5 +45 with 245/35/20 all around? Will I have any problems with this setup on stock suspension? I'm all stock at the moment but am planning to lower soon after my wheels are on and I also don't mind having to roll -if needed- when I lower. Thanks in advance!
Like @Byakuya mentioned the 20x10 the 245's will be s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d.


I would suggest doing the 20x8.5's w/the 245's. This would look (IMO) much better and also give you a chance to still fit (no rubbing) when you lower it. All this assuming you're going with the +45 offset.
 

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Chiming in, I am on 20x10 +45 stock height no modification is needed, but lowering it 2+ inches rear fenders need to be rolled, I've tested 20x10.5" +45 they will poke out slightly past fender with +45 offset.

Also 245 will not be Streeeettched as some people have over exaggerated on, it's only slightly stretch as for normal tire size for this size is 255/35/20.

My current setup is 20x10 +45 with 245/35/20 tires.




 

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Discussion Starter #9
2 things:

1) 20x10.5 is gonna need more than a +45 offset, especially if you're lowering. +45 is the stock offset, and stock rims are only 7.5 wide. I run 20x8.5 +45 and they fit about as perfectly as I think a rim can on these cars. Here's mine (I'm on stock suspension) :

2) 245/35 on 10.5" rims are going to be fairly stretched. Don't know if that's the look you're going for, but personally I don't see any benefit (visual or performance) to stretching tires like that. However, if that's the look you want, and the repercussions don't bother you, don't let me stop you :)
Well, the Surges only come with a +45 offset, unless I get the 20x8.5 +35, which I do not want. Yea, stock rims are only 7.5 +50, but there's about 24mm to the left of space left, not sure what the effect of 10.5's would be to other components. I've seen some cars on here with a 20x10/10.5 setup and it seems fine? Also, I'm pretty sure stock offset on the 17in model (Sport) is +50 and on 19in is +45? I could be wrong though. I do like the stretched look unless it is overdone, I've seen @Hoyta's setup with his 20x10.5 Surges w/ 245s in the rear and the stretch doesn't seem bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Like @Byakuya mentioned the 20x10 the 245's will be s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d.


I would suggest doing the 20x8.5's w/the 245's. This would look (IMO) much better and also give you a chance to still fit (no rubbing) when you lower it. All this assuming you're going with the +45 offset.

@Hoyta has/had the 10.5 Surge's in the rear on 245s (pictured below) and the stretch doesn't seem bad at all, as far as I can tell. I wouldn't mind doing the 8.5's, besides the fact that they're not concave, just way too flat for me, imo. I don't mind having to roll when I lower, or even add a little bit of negative camber if needed, this being, that the 10.5's would even be a good fit in the first place (stock).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Chiming in, I am on 20x10 +45 stock height no modification is needed, but lowering it 2+ inches rear fenders need to be rolled, I've tested 20x10.5" +45 they will poke out slightly past fender with +45 offset.

Also 245 will not be Streeeettched as some people have over exaggerated on, it's only slightly stretch as for normal tire size for this size is 255/35/20.

My current setup is 20x10 +45 with 245/35/20 tires.

Thank you. I was hoping someone running a -similar- setup would chime in. To clarify, with 10.5's +45 on 245s, the front and rear would need to be rolled on stock height, or just when lowering? When I lower I'm not going to do 2+in, I'll most likely do 1.0" drop or 1.3", depending on how I feel after seeing the 1.0".

Also, could you show me different angles so I can get a better look at the stretch, similar to your picture above?
 

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@Hoyta has/had the 10.5 Surge's in the rear on 245s (pictured below) and the stretch doesn't seem bad at all, as far as I can tell. I wouldn't mind doing the 8.5's, besides the fact that they're not concave, just way too flat for me, imo. I don't mind having to roll when I lower, or even add a little bit of negative camber if needed, this being, that the 10.5's would even be a good fit in the first place (stock).
Hoyta if I'm not mistaken was running a different offset.. 10.5" for me with +45 offset poked just past the fender line.



245 on 20x10 another angle, you can see how close the 20x10 +45 are to the fender as is.
 

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We all have our own vision of how we like the tire to sit on a rim and YES, it's personal preference and indeed up to the car owner to determine the look they're after.

For me personally I like a little meat overhanging the rim. Should I (or my wife) nip a curb I like the sidewall of the tire to take the impact, not the rim. I also like putting as much meat on the road as the rim will allow.

There are many "Charts" (google) out there that suggest proper Tire width for your Rim width Here's one of many. They are all the same as this one.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=HVv1as8V&id=F38F9D1553EDE7FEB57E2A98A15F0F36CE0C7808&thid=OIP.HVv1as8VaHJV9g9pCt0mxQHaGI&mediaurl=http://www.hellcat.org/attachments/jhvet-png.233225/&exph=449&expw=542&q=Tire+Width+to+Rim+Width&simid=608026646841197165&selectedindex=3&ajaxhist=0

You can see the "proper" width tire for a 10" wide rim is 265 or 275. -- 8.5" wide rim 235 or 245 is suggested.

It still come's down to what you want it to look like. I also made my suggestion of sizes based on fitment/rubbing taking into consideration that you plan to lower the car.


.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hoyta if I'm not mistaken was running a different offset.. 10.5" for me with +45 offset poked just past the fender line.



245 on 20x10 another angle, you can see how close the 20x10 +45 are to the fender as is.
Hoyta was/is running rears at +45. The surges at 20x10.5 are only offered with a +45 offset. He also says it here > http://forum.mazda6club.com/4322986-post18.html < Also, you're lowered here, so, if I'm not mistaken, it seems like the fit of 10.5's should be fine at stock height? Even though those are 10's, not 10.5's. Did it poke at stock height or after it was lowered?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
We all have our own vision of how we like the tire to sit on a rim and YES, it's personal preference and indeed up to the car owner to determine the look they're after.

For me personally I like a little meat overhanging the rim. Should I (or my wife) nip a curb I like the sidewall of the tire to take the impact, not the rim. I also like putting as much meat on the road as the rim will allow.

There are many "Charts" (google) out there that suggest proper Tire width for your Rim width Here's one of many. They are all the same as this one.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=HVv1as8V&id=F38F9D1553EDE7FEB57E2A98A15F0F36CE0C7808&thid=OIP.HVv1as8VaHJV9g9pCt0mxQHaGI&mediaurl=http://www.hellcat.org/attachments/jhvet-png.233225/&exph=449&expw=542&q=Tire+Width+to+Rim+Width&simid=608026646841197165&selectedindex=3&ajaxhist=0

You can see the "proper" width tire for a 10" wide rim is 265 or 275. -- 8.5" wide rim 235 or 245 is suggested.

It still come's down to what you want it to look like. I also made my suggestion of sizes based on fitment/rubbing taking into consideration that you plan to lower the car.
Ideal size for upgrading from these stocks is 245, which is why I'm going to go with those.

I've been looking for wheels for a while now, and I've decided that I like the surges, although, that could change considering the fact that my opinion on other wheels I thought I liked changed-so I had to keep looking. Ideally, I was looking for 20x8/8.5/9s, where the rim wouldn't stick out as much, but maybe just a little bit. But, these specifically -at 8.5- have no, or very little concave, which I'm not a fan of. I'd like for the rim to stick out a little bit less, but if I "have" to settle with these, then so be it.
 

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Ideal size for upgrading from these stocks is 245, which is why I'm going to go with those.

I've been looking for wheels for a while now, and I've decided that I like the surges, although, that could change considering the fact that my opinion on other wheels I thought I liked changed-so I had to keep looking. Ideally, I was looking for 20x8/8.5/9s, where the rim wouldn't stick out as much, but maybe just a little bit. But, these specifically -at 8.5- have no, or very little concave, which I'm not a fan of. I'd like for the rim to stick out a little bit less, but if I "have" to settle with these, then so be it.

I bought Vossen rims for my DD about 5 months ago and have been looking for the 6 for the last few weeks. I've pretty much decided on these. Look familiar?


https://n4sm.com/avant-garde-m621-wheels
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I bought Vossen rims for my DD about 5 months ago and have been looking for the 6 for the last few weeks. I've pretty much decided on these. Look familiar?


https://n4sm.com/avant-garde-m621-wheels
You're going to get those? At that price why not just get the CVT's?

Honestly, I thought the CVT's were the same price as the vs series, but they're $200 less, I might look into those rather than the surges now. :surprise:
 

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Ideal size for upgrading from these stocks is 245, which is why I'm going to go with those.

I've been looking for wheels for a while now, and I've decided that I like the surges, although, that could change considering the fact that my opinion on other wheels I thought I liked changed-so I had to keep looking. Ideally, I was looking for 20x8/8.5/9s, where the rim wouldn't stick out as much, but maybe just a little bit. But, these specifically -at 8.5- have no, or very little concave, which I'm not a fan of. I'd like for the rim to stick out a little bit less, but if I "have" to settle with these, then so be it.



Example, For Vossen anything below 10" wide will not be concave, 10" = mid-concave, 10.5" = Deep Concave. Not sure if other wheel brands follow that formula as well. I am bagged so the 10.5" wide was not tucking inside the fender like i wanted and ended up going with the 10's instead..
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Example, For Vossen anything below 10" wide will not be concave, 10" = mid-concave, 10.5" = Deep Concave. Not sure if other wheel brands follow that formula as well. I am bagged so the 10.5" wide was not tucking inside the fender like i wanted and ended up going with the 10's instead..

So if I ended up going with the 10.5 surges, I should be fine? For my first set of wheels I was trying to keep my price range around $300 per wheel, but now I've realized that the 20x9 CVT's are only an extra $400 more for a set, the 20x10/10.5s on the other hand are an extra $800 :/. I will gladly go with the 20x9's, being that that was the about the ideal size I was looking for, but you said under 10" won't have concave, and I want my concave. So pictured below I have an attachment of CVT's, for concave like that, I would need 10s or 10.5s?
 

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I think the main concern with wheels that wide is if they would clear the strut assembly up front, especially if you're going to dial in some negative camber or add camber plates, there might be some scrub within the wheel well at full lock. Ideally, you'd probably want to get a 10.5 wide wheel to test fit and see if anything hits just putting it on, or when the wheel is fully turned left and right.
 
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