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Car and Driver got their hands on a 2019 Genesis G70 and their first impression was a good one. Only real complaints were a tight rear seat and the typical grumblings regarding turbo 4cyls.



I have to be honest. If it wasn't for the spotty Genesis network, I might halfway be interested. Considering you can get the 2.0T in a 6spd manual, it makes it more tempting. Sincerely hope Mazda is developing a new 6spd manual for the 2.5T.
 

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Hard to shake the early day Garbage these guys put out out of the head but I'll admit they've come a long way and make a car that could very well be worth considering. Would still like to see how they hold up over the next few years before ever making the plunge although I highly doubt that will ever happen.

For me and according the article, 95% aren't interested in the manual option as they only expect to sell approx. 5% MT's. My rowing days are over, paddles work just fine when the urge to shift manually takes over. As far as Mazda and a manual, personally I don't see it happening. The MT is headed the way of the Dodo bird. With the gradual move to autonomous driving a stick doesn't work.
 

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Agree - manuals are dying in the US, and I think we'll see them phased out in the 4th gen 6.


Mazda's stupid decision to only offer the 6MT on the base stripper model in 2018 will kill off much of the demand that was left, and create a negative feedback loop reaffirming that "customers don't want manuals anymore".


Sounds like your heart's already moved on to other cars, Michael.
 

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Hard to shake the early day Garbage these guys put out out of the head but I'll admit they've come a long way and make a car that could very well be worth considering. Would still like to see how they hold up over the next few years before ever making the plunge although I highly doubt that will ever happen.

For me and according the article, 95% aren't interested in the manual option as they only expect to sell approx. 5% MT's. My rowing days are over, paddles work just fine when the urge to shift manually takes over. As far as Mazda and a manual, personally I don't see it happening. The MT is headed the way of the Dodo bird. With the gradual move to autonomous driving a stick doesn't work.
People have been talking about the death of the manual for what, 30+ years now, and it can continue to do just fine as a niche market. Obviously a few people are buying them, or they would be gone now -- if 5% of drivers buy them, the manufacturers can go on making 5% of their lineup manual.

Autonomous driving is going to be adopted much slower than most people think. Contrary to industry hype, the majority of consumers don't actually want anything to do with it (Consumers Don't Really Want Self-Driving Cars, MIT Study Finds | Bostonomix) . Living in rural Maine I can guarantee you it will NEVER work here, due to the conditions of the roads and the guarantee that even a light coating of snow will prevent the lane sensors from working. Public transportation is virtually non-existent and no one up here's going to buy a self-driving car for themselves.

Not trying to argue, just saying that manuals will be around for a LONG time yet and autonomous driving will only catch on in major cities with little to no snowfall, if at all.
 

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The 2.0T Genesis are fun cars (My previous car) but I have to admit that their manual transmissions are garbage hands down. I bought mine brand new off the lot & I had Hondas with 100K+ miles that shifted better than it did on it's best day. I upgrade the the bushings, short shifter, ACT clutchkit, Fidenza Aluminum flywheel, steel braided clutch line & Redline tranny fluid. Still winter time you had to fight it into gear until it warmed up. That's my number 1 complaint was that transmission was a daily task to use.
 

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Agree - manuals are dying in the US, and I think we'll see them phased out in the 4th gen 6.


Mazda's stupid decision to only offer the 6MT on the base stripper model in 2018 will kill off much of the demand that was left, and create a negative feedback loop reaffirming that "customers don't want manuals anymore".


Sounds like your heart's already moved on to other cars, Michael.
Fyi, Mazda stated on many occasuins that the gearing of the 6M was not compatible with the Turbo power curve. Anyone who drove the new 6 with turbo can confirm the auto short shifts. IMO, not the best experience for a manual.

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Overall, I'm impressed. The look is quite derivative, but it's tasteful, like Audi and BMW. The interior also looks nice, and driver-centric, much like the 6. Smart move offering MTX, as well as upgrading the limited-slip, Brembo brakes, and a "sport" exhaust system with the MTX.

I'm not too concerned about the overall quality and longevity of anything from Korea these days. Hyundai had their teething problems, but their quality has improved greatly. I have a few friends that are on their second or third Hyundai and swear by them, including a third Sonata owner, after running well over 150K miles on his two previous Sonatas over the past decade or so.

I'm interested in seeing the pricing, since I'm sure once it get optioned out as much as the GT Reserve and Signature, that pricing will be well over $40K, similar to the Germans.

A few things I caught that interested me...

It had been indicated to us earlier that the manual would be a first-year-only offering, but Genesis brand chief Manfred Fitzgerald says that’s now not the case and that it will stay in the lineup as long as there’s sufficient demand for it. Something on the order of 5 percent of overall G70 sales is projected, and Fitzgerald says he “would hope 5 to 10 percent of 2.0-liter customers” will choose the stick.
I agree with this, although they may discover that the MTX take will probably drop off after the first model year. Also, no mention of the MTX with the V6...

There is equipment you can’t have with the manual, but it’s mostly of the electronic driver-aid variety, such as adaptive cruise control and automated emergency braking, the sort of semi-autonomous features that might demand declutching to avoid stalling the engine.
You know, I never thought of this fact. And after experiencing the adaptive cruise control and emergency braking on the 6, I can now fully understand why the upper models of the 6 doesn't offer a MTX. There's probably an enormous amount of complexity with those systems alone, but also having to declutch only increases it, and how can they accelerate and slow down quickly and efficiently if the driver leaves the stick in 5th or 6th?
Not trying to argue, just saying that manuals will be around for a LONG time yet and autonomous driving will only catch on in major cities with little to no snowfall, if at all.
But, if cars are soon required to have adaptive cruise and emergency braking, thanks to the government, you can kiss your MTX goodbye along with it. Nobody thought back-up cameras would ever become required by law, but they have. Same with airbags, and ABS IIRC...
 

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Overall, I'm impressed. The look is quite derivative, but it's tasteful, like Audi and BMW. The interior also looks nice, and driver-centric, much like the 6. Smart move offering MTX, as well as upgrading the limited-slip, Brembo brakes, and a "sport" exhaust system with the MTX.

I'm not too concerned about the overall quality and longevity of anything from Korea these days. Hyundai had their teething problems, but their quality has improved greatly. I have a few friends that are on their second or third Hyundai and swear by them, including a third Sonata owner, after running well over 150K miles on his two previous Sonatas over the past decade or so.

I'm interested in seeing the pricing, since I'm sure once it get optioned out as much as the GT Reserve and Signature, that pricing will be well over $40K, similar to the Germans.

A few things I caught that interested me...

I agree with this, although they may discover that the MTX take will probably drop off after the first model year. Also, no mention of the MTX with the V6...

You know, I never thought of this fact. And after experiencing the adaptive cruise control and emergency braking on the 6, I can now fully understand why the upper models of the 6 doesn't offer a MTX. There's probably an enormous amount of complexity with those systems alone, but also having to declutch only increases it, and how can they accelerate and slow down quickly and efficiently if the driver leaves the stick in 5th or 6th?
For me its that derivatuve Infiniti/Mercedes/BMW/ Audi design as well as the non-symmetrical layout of the exhaust on the 4 cylinder. Call me superficial but that squared off, single-sided exhaust kills the look for me.

Pricing is probably similar if not more (given the Genesis badge) than the Stinger. I looked at the Stinger very closely when I was considering the 2018 6, and the option packages and interior finishes defintely favor the GT variants. A Premium with 4 cylinder is 40K. I expecta fully loaded stick with all available options will be about 42K. Too expensive IMO when the 6 gives you more for the money. Also I find the 6 to have a more natural, less busy design.

IMO

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But, if cars are soon required to have adaptive cruise and emergency braking, thanks to the government, you can kiss your MTX goodbye along with it. Nobody thought back-up cameras would ever become required by law, but they have. Same with airbags, and ABS IIRC...
Maybe, guess we'll just have to see. Requiring additional safety features (airbags, backup cameras, ABS) isn't the same as killing off an entire (and beloved) segment of the automotive industry through regulation. There was never a vocal anti-airbag enthusiast segment of drivers, as far as I can remember :)

As for one example, the Civic Type R is ONLY available in a manual. Remember too that 80% of Europe and Japan drive manuals, so there's no international pressure to kill it off. Manual transmissions likely will die in the US, but not within the next year or two as the internet would have you believe. My guess is more like 20+.
 

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Agree - manuals are dying in the US, and I think we'll see them phased out in the 4th gen 6.


Mazda's stupid decision to only offer the 6MT on the base stripper model in 2018 will kill off much of the demand that was left, and create a negative feedback loop reaffirming that "customers don't want manuals anymore".


Sounds like your heart's already moved on to other cars, Michael.

Believe me, I'm not trying to move on. But with Mazda joining the chorus of eschewing manuals, it's hard not to. I haven't purchased a car with an AT since 1995. I would prefer to keep that streak going, but it's getting harder and harder to do that. Especially since most people prefer a Starbucks or a smartphone in their hand instead of keeping both hands on their machine. That last sentence is subjective, before I get hung for it :grin2:
 

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Especially since most people prefer a Starbucks or a smartphone in their hand instead of keeping both hands on their machine. That last sentence is subjective, before I get hung for it :grin2:
Given that I see this happening in the majority of cars I see during my commute, I would say your observation is more objective. :)
Then again you left of shaving, combing hair, brushing teeth...

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Have you checked out the new 2.0T (or even the 1.5T) Accord with the manual? Mazdas are way better looking but the newest Accord is very roomy and plenty fast.
 

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Remember too that 80% of Europe and Japan drive manuals, so there's no international pressure to kill it off. Manual transmissions likely will die in the US, but not within the next year or two as the internet would have you believe. My guess is more like 20+.
I'm not sure it is 80% in Japan. I think it is much less there.
 

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I drove both 1.5 and 2.0 T 6MT Accords and felt a bit meh. Have to spin 'em up for power. The Mazda6 2.5T - bottom end torque and immediate availability of "grunt" reputedly - are markedly better i've heard - in day to day use.
 

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Have you checked out the new 2.0T (or even the 1.5T) Accord with the manual? Mazdas are way better looking but the newest Accord is very roomy and plenty fast.

I agree. I drove pretty much the whole car fleet waiting for recall service to be completed on my van. I thought both the 6/MT and 10/AT were great. I thought that car really got a move on. To be honest I haven't driven the Mazda turbo but that should happen fairly soon.


As far as styling I think the Accord has moved from what I like a bit but it is still pretty sharp.
 

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Have you checked out the new 2.0T (or even the 1.5T) Accord with the manual? Mazdas are way better looking but the newest Accord is very roomy and plenty fast.
The 1.5T is best reserved for the civic IMO. Plus it has some serious fuel dilution issues causing engine damage which has left a lot of CRV owners complaining. Mazda's engine technology is clearly far better sorted out, as it does not have such issues with it's DI system.

I drove both 1.5 and 2.0 T 6MT Accords and felt a bit meh. Have to spin 'em up for power. The Mazda6 2.5T - bottom end torque and immediate availability of "grunt" reputedly - are markedly better i've heard - in day to day use.
That's the nature of Honda's engine. It's a more linear powerband and will make better power up top. Mazda's 2.5 is better for daily driving. The Accord 2.0T is still faster than the Mazda, for whatever reason.
 

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Hard to shake the early day Garbage these guys put out out of the head but I'll admit they've come a long way and make a car that could very well be worth considering. Would still like to see how they hold up over the next few years before ever making the plunge although I highly doubt that will ever happen.
Couldn't agree more. They have come a very long way in a very short period of time though.

For me and according the article, 95% aren't interested in the manual option as they only expect to sell approx. 5% MT's. My rowing days are over, paddles work just fine when the urge to shift manually takes over. As far as Mazda and a manual, personally I don't see it happening. The MT is headed the way of the Dodo bird. With the gradual move to autonomous driving a stick doesn't work.

Mazda's stupid decision to only offer the 6MT on the base stripper model in 2018 will kill off much of the demand that was left, and create a negative feedback loop reaffirming that "customers don't want manuals anymore"
And what percentage of that 5% do you think want a manual transmission with the upper-level trims? There is obviously a good reason why Mazda, along with other manufacturers do this. BMW has said this before and I highly doubt Mazda would state any differently - If people buy the manuals, we will keep making them. Blame our mindless consumers, not Mazda.

Fyi, Mazda stated on many occasuins that the gearing of the 6M was not compatible with the Turbo power curve. Anyone who drove the new 6 with turbo can confirm the auto short shifts. IMO, not the best experience for a manual.
I agree - this makes sense. The auto transmissions quick shifts is just a better pairing to the power delivery of the 2.5T. Plus, Mazda would need to beef up the manual gearboxes internals to handle all the extra torque, and the turbo engine is only available in the upper trim levels where almost no buyer is interested in rowing their own. Why would Mazda bother if all these variables are against manual transmissions?
 

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Reminds me back 20 years a go when the new Yamaha YZ400 dirt bike came out. Was the 1st four stroke engine in a racing dirt bike. All the others were two stroke.

The dealers sold out their allocations and would get calls wanting one which of course they couldn't supply. Needless to say we (the dealers) threw a fit with Yamaha telling them we could sell a lot more if they would up the supply to which Yamaha replied, 1 person calls 20 different dealers which makes you think that we would sell 20 more when in reality it was only one.

Kind of the same thinking in that the MT folks are more vocal, truly makes it seems there's more demand than there is. I think the car manufacturers know what is in their best interest and their best interest is making money. That's what they're going to supply/make.
 
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