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2015 Mazda6 GT - Filed Safety Problem with NHTSA due to Rust

13K views 97 replies 13 participants last post by  Benedict 
#1 ·
2015 Mazda6 GT 42000 miles. I am the original owner. Yes I live in CT, but this level of corrosion is not normal for 42000 miles. Road salt damage to sub-frame and all under-body structural components is unbelievable. Dealer price to repair is $6000. Mazda Corporate is unresponsive other than to say "they won't help me". Seeking others with similar issues to file complaints with Home | NHTSA to help influence a recall.

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#88 ·
You mean that car passed the yearly safety inspection ( MOT as we call it in England) ? It would have failed many years ago over here, you would have started with an advisory, then get it done before the next test, then fail. Don't drive the car.
When I bought my car new I had waxoyl treatment.
You could knowing the state of your roads, weather etc had it done then once a year ( summer peferably) using old engine oil paint the subframe. When we get snow ( which is once every 5 years) I put the lawn sprinkler underneath on the hose pipe and pull it from one end to the other of the car, which doesn't take any effort.
I cannot say I have much sympathy or you if you haven't inspected the car underneath since you have owned it, knowing the local conditions.

Our cash strapped council will grit the roads with salt every time they hear there is going to be a frost. It may have been dry for a week , so I am not sure what they are expecting to freeze.
On the odd ocassion we have snow, just enough to whiten the ground, it has usually disappeared by lunchtimes and within 30 minutes on the main roads, but you still have people calling in to work to say they are snowed in, despite them driving a huge 4x4 or SUV. It amazes me the mentality and lack of driving skills the younger people have. I have driven in 4"-6" of snow in a 1980's Mini and thought nothing of it. Not a soul on the road, freezing temperatures crossing the ridge of hills that run down Northern England, never got stuck once. Great fun it was. Fortunately it didn't snow any more* and was a clear night.

I don't think you have a chance of claiming anything.

In Japan I understand they ship the domestic cars to Australia/NZ after a couple of years so the rusting is never experienced, plus they don't treat the underbody either like European manufacturers.
 
#4 ·
Let me ask one question... Did you ever wash the dang salt off? I mean, defects are one thing, but not doing ANY maintenance is another, (and no I'm not saying you didn't) but expecting stuff to last without ever washing it is ridic.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Correct - I have never washed the undercarriage of any of my cars. My 2001 Passat with 165000 miles had no such issues when I traded it in in 2014.

Take a good look at the coil springs in above pictures. They are original to the car and look brand new.

I have done some research since discovering this issue:
The 2015 STUDY OF WINTER HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE IN CONNECTICUT report recommends that residents periodically wash their vehicles, particularly their undercarriages, as soon as possible after exposure to road salt to minimize corrosion. It also asserted a need for regular voluntary undercarriage inspections, possibly during routine oil changes or standard vehicle maintenance.

That's all well and good except washing the undercarriage in the snow when temps are below freezing is unrealistic. Not to overlook that spraying water under there is awkward at best. I'm not a fan of car washes as they can scratch the paint and/or force sand in between the glass and window gaskets resulting in scratches. I definitely see the benefit of the undercarriage car wash option as long as they don't use recycled water - which they do and is not regulated in CT. Thus the carwash can actually subject your car to salts in areas that wouldn't otherwise have been exposed.

All that said. Exactly how do you, TalonTsi90, wash your undercarriage? Then again maybe they don't use as much salt on Kentucky roads.
 
#5 ·
That type of subframe and suspension member rust is in keeping with the deplorable record of the Mazda6 2nd Gen. subframe corrosion recall. That kind of corrosion, where layers of corroded steel sort of spall-off, is the result of defective base material/maybe dirty steelmaking. Even though Mazda's phosphating and E coat process is next to non-existent (it seems) even if perfect pre-treatment and subsequent painting were done on that sh*tty- material subframe - no way would it survive.

If all Gen 3's are all like that - well that is super-disappointing 😐.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I really, really doubt having washed it would have helped it in any real way. VW's simply are built out of steels (for subframes and other suspension cpts) that have proper metallurgy and quality control. Can we say that Mazda, too, does this? I fear, not... Just look at the springs, as the OP points out. Just look at the actual body sheet metal... Neither has a prb. Crap steel and no corrosion mitigation methods that Mazda uses for subframes and susp members. Fabricated, welded susp members (poor-boy, that, versus cast nodular or aluminum). These, unfortunately, show evidence of the cost-cutting aspects of the overall car. Even std corr mitigation measures would not help with that crap steel.
 
#9 ·
Yes, paint systems matter... but I am really convinced that bodyshell and framing/suspension component steelmaking, metallurgy really matters more so. A paint system will have "holidays" (i.e. breakages or discontinuities, perforations, or lack of 100% coverage) and you then depend on the base material not corroding at a ridiculous rate. Some spot corrosion, yes, but not turning to oxide spontaneously.

I have '97 Civic Si (EX 2 dr in the 'States) - and it has some bodyshell exterior rust, very minor, where a bird "shat" on it. Paint system is crap to have been so-affected, yes, but only minimal rust at those points, and it corrodes at only a small rate. Doesn't turn into a rust bucket in a flash. I'm convinced steelmaking cleanliness, metallurgy is the difference, here. And Honda's aren't noted for corr resistance... But this one is good...
 
#12 ·
I would assume that it's far more the age of the car than the mileage. Rust takes time and doesn't care how many miles were driven. The fact that you never rinse your undercarriage says all that needs to be said. It's a lot of work, but all that corrosion could be repaired by a skilled home mechanic for about 1/3 of what you were quoted. (Two replacement salvage yard subframes and new aftermarket suspension arms. New bolts either dealer or third party matching grade and length/pitch.
 
#16 ·
It's a lot of work, but all that corrosion could be repaired by a skilled home mechanic for about 1/3 of what you were quoted. (Two replacement salvage yard subframes and new aftermarket suspension arms. New bolts either dealer or third party matching grade and length/pitch.
I'm fully capable of doing the whole job, but without a lift it would likely take me a good week. I already priced the parts from online resellers at 30% less than the dealer prices. So the question becomes, am I willing to sacrifice a week of vacation to fix this mess? Answer = No.

The question I'm battling now is whether I unload the car in the best sellers market/worst buyers market ever.
 
#14 ·
That is crap steel.

I've seen that sort of damage on other Japanese cars but not on that short of a timeframe or to that extent. A friend of mine has similar on a couple of rear suspension members on a ~12 year old vehicle that I warned him would eventually fail if he didn't replace them, but it was limited to a couple specific suspension parts and not all over the place as is seen here.
 
#15 ·
I purchased this car new 6/2014 for $32,000. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $37,000 in today’s (2022) dollars.

A vehicle in that price range should be manufactured to withstand the road conditions it is designed for without requiring major structural component replacement due to corrosion for at least 10 years or 100,000 miles. This is an extremely conservative target and Mazda has failed to hit it.

If washing the undercarriage on a regular basis is a maintenance requirement towards achieving above target, then it should be clearly identified in the owner’s manual as a regularly scheduled maintenance item (which it isn’t). Considering all car owners out there, it’s a fair guess that less than 25% actually wash their undercarriage (your local car wash doesn’t count as they likely use recycled salt saturated water).

The rust free coil springs illustrate that the technology to manufacture parts that last is available. Mazda Corporate made conscious decisions towards inferior finishing/base materials or both in favor of profits/designed obsolescence.

Mazda is developing a solid reputation of inferior manufacturing practices leading to premature hazardous undercarriage corrosion. Their paint peeling wheels and multiple corrosion recalls back up this statement as I have experienced both, only none of my issues have been covered by recalls. After several months of arguing with Mazda, they did reluctantly agree to replace their defectively finished rims.

I did offer to split the repair cost 50/50 with Mazda, which yielded nothing. This is the first and last Mazda I will ever buy.
 
#18 ·
It’s a metal car. You live in a snowy northeastern state. How you have owned a car for eight years without EVER rinsing the undercarriage is hard to believe. Then trying to blame everyone else or wanting the manufacturer to pay for it. I live in Texas and just got back from a road trip to the Midwest in our Mazda 3. First thing I did upon returning was thoroughly wash the car and rinse the undercarriage with my garden hose. It was 50 F outside when I did this. Surely you have occasional days in the winter where it gets warm enough to take the five minutes an underbody rinse takes. There’s also an entire industry in northern states catering to rust prevention. The fact is you neglected common sense preventative care for your car that everyone who lives in salty road areas is aware of.
 
#28 ·
It’s a metal car. You live in a snowy northeastern state. How you have owned a car for eight years without EVER rinsing the undercarriage is hard to believe. Then trying to blame everyone else or wanting the manufacturer to pay for it.
I covered this base in post 15, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I live in Texas and just got back from a road trip to the Midwest in our Mazda 3. First thing I did upon returning was thoroughly wash the car and rinse the undercarriage with my garden hose. It was 50 F outside when I did this.
That’s apparently an unpublished prerequisite for Mazda owners.
Surely you have occasional days in the winter where it gets warm enough to take the five minutes an underbody rinse takes.
Spoken like a man from Texas. During winter season around here you disconnect the outdoor spigot hose and drain the water to prevent freeze damage.
There’s also an entire industry in northern states catering to rust prevention.
Exactly, and Mazda should have taken advantage of it.
The fact is you neglected common sense preventative care for your car that everyone who lives in salty road areas is aware of.
If that was true this post and others like it wouldn't exist. Like it or not, "the fact is" that I am in the majority. Most people don’t wash their undercarriage. That doesn’t mean I won’t start now that I know how poorly this car is made.
 
#20 ·
The OP is referring to the power window auto-up feature reset procedure.

In any case, I believe all of you guys speaking of this whole matter of rampant subframe and suspension corrosion as being solely a matter of lack of maintenance are totally in a state of denial. You-All no doubt have heard of the Toyota Tacoma frame debacle, where Dana Corp mfr'd frames totally disintegrated? We'll, the pictures I've seen, here, are of that same delaminating, spalling-off chunks of oxide nature... and lack of mtce is only a minor factor in that having happened.

Having said this, it is strange that we've, as a Community, not heard of any other 3rd gen Mazda6 cases.
 
#24 ·
You-All no doubt have heard of the Toyota Tacoma frame debacle, where Dana Corp mfr'd frames totally disintegrated?
Dude, i hate to seem to keep arguing with you, but id give $100 to see ONE example of that where the elements had nothing to do with it.
 
#21 ·
Nobody is in a state of denial. Yeah it sucks that it’s happened. However it is crazy to live in a snowy rust prone state and NEVER rinse the undercarriage. The cars in question are about 8 years or more old. At that age most should have a lot of those relatively worn out suspension members replaced anyway. These are wear and tear parts with bushings and ball joints that wear out. When these parts are removed it is only a handful of additional bolts to remove and replace the subframe. It can be coated with fluid film or similar to prolong the life of the replacements. Now the car will ride and drive like new for many more years to come. Whining and crying that a manufacturer should pay for all of this is basically just whining and crying.
 
#23 ·
I don't think the OP is so much whining and crying about the Mfr not stepping up to the plate as he/she is of the fact that the cpts are in such a decrepit state and comprise cr*p materials. Yeah, rinsing off and flushing make good sense and they should have done it... but I would bet the majority of CT residents do not go to heroic measures of chassis mtce... and yet we do not hear of rampant cases of CT cars having sustained such damage, Dept of Highways (?) report notwithstanding. I stand by my statement: the cpts' materials of fabrication are unmitigated cr*p!
 
#32 ·
U keep on talking like a once in a while (or better yet, say once a week) rinse off with water will help any material amount... and I have to say no, you need i) properly made materials; ii) properly fabricated components; and iii) properly specified pre-treatment and finish coated components. If you don't have that a squirt of water will hardly do squat.
 
#33 ·
Oh thank you for imparting such rare knowledge on the rest of us. Unbelievable. Rinsing salt off does nothing, yeah I understand now. I'm through replying to you, you just want to sit there pontificating about the metallurgy and such with no demonstrable knowledge of what you speak, then denigrate anybody who suggests that common sense care for their car will help.
 
#37 ·
I find it interesting that a lot of the rusted areas are at weld locations. I'll buy that I could have reduced the incidence of surface rust at non-weld locations, but I don't think any water intervention treatment would have significantly delayed the rusting welds. It's notable that Mazda had prior year recalls for lower front control arms rusting out in exactly the same manor as mine.
 
#38 ·
I found a perfect comparison example! My Son’s 2005 Toyota Celica. Has 130,000+ miles on it. He has never washed or rinsed his undercarriage or had any rust treatment done to it. Doesn’t use the car wash. Lives near me. Works with me. Travels the same salt treated roads that I do. He has plenty of surface rust, but no flaking, puckering, spalling, structurally failing metal. I feel much better now knowing it’s not me, it’s Mazda.
 
#41 ·
I lived in the Chicago area for 13 years which, as everyone knows, salts the bejeezus out of the roads. Cars get nailed pretty bad but not THAT bad in less than 10 years on suspension structural members, and I've crawled under and worked on a LOT of cars while there. If you live in the city either in an apartment or townhouse (which a huge percentage of people do, myself included when I was there for most of it) you're not undercarriage washing anything in the winter either and an awful lot of people don't have indoor parking of any sort.

My 2015 doesn't look anything like this -- anywhere -- but I don't live where the brine the crap out of the roads all winter either..... if I did I suspect I'd be very, very unhappy.
 
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