Mazda 6 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 86 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2015 Mazda6 GT 42000 miles. I am the original owner. Yes I live in CT, but this level of corrosion is not normal for 42000 miles. Road salt damage to sub-frame and all under-body structural components is unbelievable. Dealer price to repair is $6000. Mazda Corporate is unresponsive other than to say "they won't help me". Seeking others with similar issues to file complaints with Home | NHTSA to help influence a recall.

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive fuel system Wood Automotive exterior
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Tire Automotive exterior Bumper
Wheel Tire Vehicle Automotive tire Motor vehicle
Wood Seafood Motor vehicle Gas Metal
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive fuel system Bumper Hood
Photograph Automotive tire Motor vehicle Wood Bumper
Automotive tire Crankset Bumper Bicycle part Rim


Automotive tire Rim Automotive wheel system Helmet Wood
Tire Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Automotive lighting
Automotive tire Bumper Vehicle brake Automotive exterior Crankset
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,140 Posts
Let me ask one question... Did you ever wash the dang salt off? I mean, defects are one thing, but not doing ANY maintenance is another, (and no I'm not saying you didn't) but expecting stuff to last without ever washing it is ridic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
That type of subframe and suspension member rust is in keeping with the deplorable record of the Mazda6 2nd Gen. subframe corrosion recall. That kind of corrosion, where layers of corroded steel sort of spall-off, is the result of defective base material/maybe dirty steelmaking. Even though Mazda's phosphating and E coat process is next to non-existent (it seems) even if perfect pre-treatment and subsequent painting were done on that sh*tty- material subframe - no way would it survive.

If all Gen 3's are all like that - well that is super-disappointing 😐.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Let me ask one question... Did you ever wash the dang salt off? I mean, defects are one thing, but not doing ANY maintenance is another, (and no I'm not saying you didn't) but expecting stuff to last without ever washing it is ridic.
Correct - I have never washed the undercarriage of any of my cars. My 2001 Passat with 165000 miles had no such issues when I traded it in in 2014.

Take a good look at the coil springs in above pictures. They are original to the car and look brand new.

I have done some research since discovering this issue:
The 2015 STUDY OF WINTER HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE IN CONNECTICUT report recommends that residents periodically wash their vehicles, particularly their undercarriages, as soon as possible after exposure to road salt to minimize corrosion. It also asserted a need for regular voluntary undercarriage inspections, possibly during routine oil changes or standard vehicle maintenance.

That's all well and good except washing the undercarriage in the snow when temps are below freezing is unrealistic. Not to overlook that spraying water under there is awkward at best. I'm not a fan of car washes as they can scratch the paint and/or force sand in between the glass and window gaskets resulting in scratches. I definitely see the benefit of the undercarriage car wash option as long as they don't use recycled water - which they do and is not regulated in CT. Thus the carwash can actually subject your car to salts in areas that wouldn't otherwise have been exposed.

All that said. Exactly how do you, TalonTsi90, wash your undercarriage? Then again maybe they don't use as much salt on Kentucky roads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
I really, really doubt having washed it would have helped it in any real way. VW's simply are built out of steels (for subframes and other suspension cpts) that have proper metallurgy and quality control. Can we say that Mazda, too, does this? I fear, not... Just look at the springs, as the OP points out. Just look at the actual body sheet metal... Neither has a prb. Crap steel and no corrosion mitigation methods that Mazda uses for subframes and susp members. Fabricated, welded susp members (poor-boy, that, versus cast nodular or aluminum). These, unfortunately, show evidence of the cost-cutting aspects of the overall car. Even std corr mitigation measures would not help with that crap steel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,140 Posts
Correct - I have never washed the undercarriage of any of my cars. My 2001 Passat with 165000 miles had no such issues when I traded it in in 2014.
Thats cause the paint would have still been lacquer based and not water based. IMO, it has less to do with the metal its made of, than the paint thats applied. Maybe VW puts more effort into the body of the car and shorts everyone on the engines that shit out randomly. (thanks for understanding i was simply asking, not accusing you)

All that said. Exactly how do you, TalonTsi90, wash your undercarriage? Then again maybe they don't use as much salt on Kentucky roads.
Lately, its been a LOT. I mean, they are pre-salting for what ends up being a 1/2" that doesnt even stick to the roads. So, when it melts, it creates nasty salt water that gets everywhere. I use a touchless car wash with the underbody spray when its too cold, i drive slowly so it rinses off as much as possible. But even if you dont have a garage and driveway, a cheap set of Harbor Freight ramps and a hose would go a long way to helping wash underneath.

Can we say that Mazda, too, does this? Even std corr mitigation measures would not help with that crap steel.
What i said above about paint has more to do with it than the metal. Not only that, but certain types of STAINLESS can rust, its simple physics.

Bottom line here is: I not saying the manufacturer has zero liability, but the examples people have been posting lately are VERY neglected (and in some examples, used and on its 3rd or 4th owner and well out of warranty for 10 years and 10's of thousands of miles) and im sorry (not sorry), you HAVE to shoulder SOME responsibility when owning a car.

Try ignoring the oil changes, see how easily you can get them to replace the motor for free after you drive till the oil is jello.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
Yes, paint systems matter... but I am really convinced that bodyshell and framing/suspension component steelmaking, metallurgy really matters more so. A paint system will have "holidays" (i.e. breakages or discontinuities, perforations, or lack of 100% coverage) and you then depend on the base material not corroding at a ridiculous rate. Some spot corrosion, yes, but not turning to oxide spontaneously.

I have '97 Civic Si (EX 2 dr in the 'States) - and it has some bodyshell exterior rust, very minor, where a bird "shat" on it. Paint system is crap to have been so-affected, yes, but only minimal rust at those points, and it corrodes at only a small rate. Doesn't turn into a rust bucket in a flash. I'm convinced steelmaking cleanliness, metallurgy is the difference, here. And Honda's aren't noted for corr resistance... But this one is good...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
I would assume that it's far more the age of the car than the mileage. Rust takes time and doesn't care how many miles were driven. The fact that you never rinse your undercarriage says all that needs to be said. It's a lot of work, but all that corrosion could be repaired by a skilled home mechanic for about 1/3 of what you were quoted. (Two replacement salvage yard subframes and new aftermarket suspension arms. New bolts either dealer or third party matching grade and length/pitch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
Big undertaking and a grand PITA. It's not just a lack of rinsing/neutralizing the salty water. It can't be simply ascribed to a lack of maintenance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,658 Posts
That is crap steel.

I've seen that sort of damage on other Japanese cars but not on that short of a timeframe or to that extent. A friend of mine has similar on a couple of rear suspension members on a ~12 year old vehicle that I warned him would eventually fail if he didn't replace them, but it was limited to a couple specific suspension parts and not all over the place as is seen here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I purchased this car new 6/2014 for $32,000. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $37,000 in today’s (2022) dollars.

A vehicle in that price range should be manufactured to withstand the road conditions it is designed for without requiring major structural component replacement due to corrosion for at least 10 years or 100,000 miles. This is an extremely conservative target and Mazda has failed to hit it.

If washing the undercarriage on a regular basis is a maintenance requirement towards achieving above target, then it should be clearly identified in the owner’s manual as a regularly scheduled maintenance item (which it isn’t). Considering all car owners out there, it’s a fair guess that less than 25% actually wash their undercarriage (your local car wash doesn’t count as they likely use recycled salt saturated water).

The rust free coil springs illustrate that the technology to manufacture parts that last is available. Mazda Corporate made conscious decisions towards inferior finishing/base materials or both in favor of profits/designed obsolescence.

Mazda is developing a solid reputation of inferior manufacturing practices leading to premature hazardous undercarriage corrosion. Their paint peeling wheels and multiple corrosion recalls back up this statement as I have experienced both, only none of my issues have been covered by recalls. After several months of arguing with Mazda, they did reluctantly agree to replace their defectively finished rims.

I did offer to split the repair cost 50/50 with Mazda, which yielded nothing. This is the first and last Mazda I will ever buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It's a lot of work, but all that corrosion could be repaired by a skilled home mechanic for about 1/3 of what you were quoted. (Two replacement salvage yard subframes and new aftermarket suspension arms. New bolts either dealer or third party matching grade and length/pitch.
I'm fully capable of doing the whole job, but without a lift it would likely take me a good week. I already priced the parts from online resellers at 30% less than the dealer prices. So the question becomes, am I willing to sacrifice a week of vacation to fix this mess? Answer = No.

The question I'm battling now is whether I unload the car in the best sellers market/worst buyers market ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Bottom line here is: I not saying the manufacturer has zero liability, but the examples people have been posting lately are VERY neglected (and in some examples, used and on its 3rd or 4th owner and well out of warranty for 10 years and 10's of thousands of miles) and im sorry (not sorry), you HAVE to shoulder SOME responsibility when owning a car.

Try ignoring the oil changes, see how easily you can get them to replace the motor for free after you drive till the oil is jello.
This brings up an interesting issue. Many car owners like myself elect to have the dealer perform regularly scheduled maintenance to ensure nothing is overlooked. I, personally have never changed the oil in this car. All oil changes and mechanical maintenance have been done by the same Mazda dealer. That's not due to my inability to perform most of these tasks, though discovering that you don't own some expensive specialty tool at the last minute is an annoyance I don't want to deal with. Heck, even changing the battery isn't a simple out with the old and in with the new.

If washing the undercarriage is such an important regular maintenance procedure, why isn't it a Mazda dealer recommended, suggested or even offered service procedure adder during every oil change?

I recall the Volkswagen dealer washed my Passat at every oil change. No idea if they washed the undercarriage, but they could have without my knowledge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
It’s a metal car. You live in a snowy northeastern state. How you have owned a car for eight years without EVER rinsing the undercarriage is hard to believe. Then trying to blame everyone else or wanting the manufacturer to pay for it. I live in Texas and just got back from a road trip to the Midwest in our Mazda 3. First thing I did upon returning was thoroughly wash the car and rinse the undercarriage with my garden hose. It was 50 F outside when I did this. Surely you have occasional days in the winter where it gets warm enough to take the five minutes an underbody rinse takes. There’s also an entire industry in northern states catering to rust prevention. The fact is you neglected common sense preventative care for your car that everyone who lives in salty road areas is aware of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,140 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
The OP is referring to the power window auto-up feature reset procedure.

In any case, I believe all of you guys speaking of this whole matter of rampant subframe and suspension corrosion as being solely a matter of lack of maintenance are totally in a state of denial. You-All no doubt have heard of the Toyota Tacoma frame debacle, where Dana Corp mfr'd frames totally disintegrated? We'll, the pictures I've seen, here, are of that same delaminating, spalling-off chunks of oxide nature... and lack of mtce is only a minor factor in that having happened.

Having said this, it is strange that we've, as a Community, not heard of any other 3rd gen Mazda6 cases.
 
1 - 20 of 86 Posts
Top