2014 Mazda 6 with Manual first to second shift ?

13209 Views 17 Replies 12 Participants Last post by 6andcounting, Aug 23, 2015

6andcounting

Discussion Starter · Apr 5, 2014

I have a 2014 6, touring with the MT that i got a week ago. What a car and a blast to drive. Why does it seem, at least for me, that the shift from first to second is never the same for me. The 3,4,5,6, smooth as butter but my 1 -2 shift always has a slight jerk and seldom smooth. Do the posts i read about a "slight pause" between the 1-2 shift really exist and if so is that what is going on or part of it?

Thanks

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Caliche

· #2 · Apr 5, 2014

Allow it to break in, I think that's all it is. How is the shifting from Neutral to 1st, by the way? Does it snag at times (like a rubbery feel blocking it) causing you to have to go to 2nd and then back straight through to 1st to engage it? This has happened to me a few times, very seldom, but it has. Others have reported similarly.

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Mickey

· #3 · Apr 5, 2014

6andcounting said:
I have a 2014 6, touring with the MT that i got a week ago. What a car and a blast to drive. Why does it seem, at least for me, that the shift from first to second is never the same for me. The 3,4,5,6, smooth as butter but my 1 -2 shift always has a slight jerk and seldom smooth. Do the posts i read about a "slight pause" between the 1-2 shift really exist and if so is that what is going on or part of it?

Thanks

I'm a long time manual driver but I too am experiencing this. The shift from 1-2 is very touchy. It seems like the revs hang for awhile after you declutch and get off the gas between first and second. If I pause a bit longer than normal after declutching before I engage second or really baby it in at low revs I can get a smooth shift. However if I get a bit aggressive and rev to 3.5k or higher in 1st, I always get a jerk going into second no matter what I do. Bear in mind, I'm no greenhorn. I drove a stick for 15 years took a 15 year auto trans layoff and now i'm back on a stick with my Mazda 6. It's only been 3 weeks that I've owned the car so maybe I'm a little rusty, but I think this trans and clutch is not as buttery smooth as my old acura integra. If anyone could shed some light, I'd be interested to know. Otherwise, all my other shifts are spot on (even my downshifts)

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Oldvet

· #4 · Apr 5, 2014 (Edited)

Your right

Mickey said:
I'm a long time manual driver but I too am experiencing this. The shift from 1-2 is very touchy. It seems like the revs hang for awhile after you declutch and get off the gas between first and second. If I pause a bit longer than normal after declutching before I engage second or really baby it in at low revs I can get a smooth shift. However if I get a bit aggressive and rev to 3.5k or higher in 1st, I always get a jerk going into second no matter what I do. Bear in mind, I'm no greenhorn. I drove a stick for 15 years took a 15 year auto trans layoff and now i'm back on a stick with my Mazda 6. It's only been 3 weeks that I've owned the car so maybe I'm a little rusty, but I think this trans and clutch is not as buttery smooth as my old acura integra. If anyone could shed some light, I'd be interested to know. Otherwise, all my other shifts are spot on (even my downshifts)

Ive been saying the same as you , but some owners really dont want to hear it. Car and Driver quoted that there is a bog on the 1-2 shift , this is what they think causes the slower than the auto 0-60 time--- auto 7.0 sec. vs 7.7 sec. for the manual. And yes the the gearing also. Been like you 25 years driving manuals--- from 100hp to 500hp. It seems that its a programing problem set up because of emissions--- like the Honda SI holding revs on shifts that a lot are talking about. I hope that Mazda straightens it out for you. Its a wonderful car. But you are correct, there is a problem. Oldvet

SonicNutrition

· #5 · Apr 5, 2014

My honest recommendations.

Make Mazda look into it more, and complain like crazy. Try to get them to at least drain and fill the gear box.
You pay out of pocket and flush with Motorcraft Full Synthetic Manual Transmission fluid. Made my slow spooling 2nd gear syncro issues disappear.

6andcounting

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 5, 2014

Sounds like a couple people know exactly what i am talking about. I have known one of the Mazda techs for years, I will see him soon and ask him and share with you all. Funny it bothered me so much yesterday i was over thinking every 1-2 shift and they all suked, HA! Today i went with a different plan, drive my car and have fun and that is what i did. It was much much better, timing, feeling, who knows, but i feel better today than yesterday. CALICHE, no i have not experienced any neural to first issues. Hey guys NO stereo mute button on the wheel right? I miss that. Going to get my factory - dealer installed fogs Thursday and after that i will post some pics of my new 6 Touring and add my thoughts on the car, which i really really like. My best friend of 51 years saw it yesterday for the first time and he went nuts, he loved it pointing out that aggressive stance when you look at the front end and front fenders from a certain angle, i think Infiniti he says BMW either way that is good company.

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tickerguy

· #7 · Apr 5, 2014

It's not a spooling problem with the synchros; the shifter goes in just fine. In fact in terms of throws, gate selection, precision and similar this is one of the nicest manual gearboxes I've ever had the pleasure of driving.

It's a mismatch between where you think the revs should be on the engine to match and where they actually are when you clutch back out. In addition the lightening of the rotational mass in the engine (part of the Skyactiv thing) means you have less flywheel effect in total on the engine, so in percentage terms you have to be much closer to spot-on with the match to avoid it being a bit jerky since the flywheel effect of the engine is unable to slip the clutch slightly as you release it to compensate. Since 2nd is the lowest gear that one engages while moving (and thus where there is a matching issue) the issue is most-pronounced there because the percentage change in engine shaft RPM is highest for a given change in wheel speed on a comparative basis. I'm finding that softening my release on the clutch just a bit for 2nd helps a great deal, and in addition I'm getting better at the match as I go into second from first as well.

My impression is that it's a function of the choice of a relatively-tall second gear, which I suspect Mazda made to allow one shift between 0-60 instead of two, along with the materially lower effective rotational momentum of the Skyactiv engine itself. It's the one thing I'd change about the gearbox -- shorten the ratio for 2nd up a bit.

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Reactions: 3

Caliche

· #8 · Apr 6, 2014

tickerguy said:
It's not a spooling problem with the synchros; the shifter goes in just fine. In fact in terms of throws, gate selection, precision and similar this is one of the nicest manual gearboxes I've ever had the pleasure of driving.

It's a mismatch between where you think the revs should be on the engine to match and where they actually are when you clutch back out. In addition the lightening of the rotational mass in the engine (part of the Skyactiv thing) means you have less flywheel effect in total on the engine, so in percentage terms you have to be much closer to spot-on with the match to avoid it being a bit jerky since the flywheel effect of the engine is unable to slip the clutch slightly as you release it to compensate. Since 2nd is the lowest gear that one engages while moving (and thus where there is a matching issue) the issue is most-pronounced there because the percentage change in engine shaft RPM is highest for a given change in wheel speed on a comparative basis. I'm finding that softening my release on the clutch just a bit for 2nd helps a great deal, and in addition I'm getting better at the match as I go into second from first as well.

My impression is that it's a function of the choice of a relatively-tall second gear, which I suspect Mazda made to allow one shift between 0-60 instead of two, along with the materially lower effective rotational momentum of the Skyactiv engine itself. It's the one thing I'd change about the gearbox -- shorten the ratio for 2nd up a bit.

Man, Ticker, you just made a lot of sense with your explanation, especially with this: "It's a mismatch between where you think the revs should be on the engine to match and where they actually are when you clutch back out." Thanks for that. Now I can't wait to go drive the MT.

Mickey

· #9 · Apr 6, 2014

It's a mismatch between where you think the revs should be on the engine to match and where they actually are when you clutch back out.

Hey Ticker Guy, that's an interesting explanation. Maybe I'll understand it after studying it for a couple of hours

Just kidding. Based on what you said sounds like I should be keeping a sharp eye on my tach before I release the clutch into 2nd. About where should the revs be? 1500 or so?

tickerguy

· #10 · Apr 6, 2014 (Edited)

Depends on where you are in "1" when you shift.

It's a Zen thing and the tall second gear doesn't help. The "6" has a hydraulic clutch that has a bit of an over-center "pop" to it and that doesn't help either -- a lot of hydraulic clutches have a bit of this sort of action to them, especially when new (BTW purely-mechanical ones can be MUCH worse in my experience; the hydraulics tend to dampen it out a lot.) Finally the accelerator is hinged at the bottom so if you are pressing it with your toe you don't have as fine control of it as you think you do. What's happening is that between all of this you're a bit off on the match between the input shaft RPM and the gearbox RPM and that little bit of over-center behavior on the clutch as you release it causes it to grab a bit. Because the ratio is low and the engine has a relatively low rotating mass (on a comparative basis against other engines) instead of that mismatch causing a bit of slip in the clutch engagement it instead is transmitted to the driveline as a "jerky" shift.

I noticed it right away myself but it's just a feel thing driving the car. Within a couple of days I was reasonably smooth and now, about a week in of owning mine, most of my 1-2 shifts are fine. Occasionally I get a bit of a jerky one, but not often any more. In another couple weeks I suspect none of them will be.

BTW if you want to really have fun with this sort of thing try driving a rotary with a mechanically-coupled clutch sometime. I remember them well from many years ago....

There's nothing wrong with the car -- it's just getting your Zen on with the engine and gearbox RPM matching that has to happen to get a smooth engagement, especially in the lower gears.

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Sideways the Seven

· #11 · Apr 7, 2014

I, of course, had the same issue. I did notice it REALLY seemed to smooth out once I hit around 9K miles.

Mickey

· #12 · Apr 7, 2014

Thanks to all for these enlightening posts. I've been reading up a bit on this Rev hang issue and it seems to be quite common on modern manual transmission cars (An issue, obviously, that didn't apply to my 87 Integra)

Apparently the ecu hangs up the revs so excess fuel is burned off in the engine and not dumped into the catalytic converter. This is to lessen emissions. Also the rev hang isn't as pronounced when the car is cold (something I've noticed).

That said, the more I drive it, the smoother I get, especially when I let the revs drop by not rushing the 1-2 shift. Also, if it's a computer issue, it may get smoother as the computer "learns" your driving style. For awhile, I thought it was me–and I was right! New manuals are different than the old manuals that I'm used to. Just got to do a little re-learning, that's all.

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ExB5

· #13 · Apr 9, 2014

I agree with tickerguy. My 2nd gear clutch release is "gentler" than 3-6th gears. That gear is very "touchy" (vs the others). But in 1st gear, once you "feel" the clutch grab, a quick release is fine with no gas pedal compensation (ditto and quick releases for the above 3rd-6th). The nice thing about this engine/trans combo...this car is forgiving. No jerkiness whatsoever, say for example when slowing down and approaching near stop on 3rd (not a habit/very rare when I do it, though). My shifting "mojo" is up to snuff with the 6MT unit..esp, when the MT fluid gets to it's optimal operating temp (from my cold, early 5AM work drive offs).

Belfastmazda6

· #14 · Aug 21, 2015

Hi All, I've come across this thread after buying a used 2014 manual Mazda6 with 25k miles. I've always used a manual transmission (vauxhall astra in N.Ireland for 8 years) but I'm really struggling to control jerkiness with 1st to 2nd gear changes and sometimes even 2nd to 3rd. I am wondering has it improved for you over the last 12 monthe?

Deemo13

· #15 · Aug 21, 2015

I am the same way; I've had mine for quite a bit, drove about 13k on it, and I have barely nailed the 1-2 upshift. I think it just takes some getting used to. Coming from a 1980 240D with a 4-speed manual which was easier than a Honda to drive, I think I have gotten better with the Mazda.

I still havent nailed it though.

Jomar23M6

· #16 · Aug 21, 2015

For me when I had manual cx5 it did the same thing and what worked for me and it doesn't matter if I release the clutch slow or fast, from 1st to 2nd just make sure you give it a little gas before the clutch catches and release clutch gradually and it doesn't need to be real slow but steady normal release

chutoyy

· #17 · Aug 22, 2015

Try using a weighted shift knob... I'm using a 490 gram and it somehow helped.

6andcounting

Discussion Starter · #18 · Aug 23, 2015

I made the original post in April of 2014, i now have close to 25,000 miles on the car. There is no issue with the shift between 1-2. Letting the car break in, not overthinking it every time you shift and maybe some good old just getting use to it took care of it, that and the advice of several members on here. One thing i notice it actually likes, depending on the traffic situation you are in, roll out in first let the RPM's climb, grip the shifter and rip it back into 2nd and it just snaps into gear.

2014 Mazda 6 MT, Liquid Silver

Mods (old man mods)
Factory dealer installed fogs
Interior bulbs like everyone on here talks about
Sirius Strat 7 plug and play tucked back in the little cubby in front of the shifter, antenna left inside on the rear deck, nice and neat and ZERO reception drop
Stainless Steel rear license plates screws

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