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Ok, here's the deal. Fairly simple too :) I have and absolutely need wagon (2 little kids) but BADLY want MS6. Did I mention badly ? :) I am like a baby agonizing over how much more fun I could have in my daily 80mile commute. There is no way I could justify swapping wagon to MS6 in front of my family...not after I searched MTX version for 2 months and went all the way down to VA to get it :)

Basically I want audi s4 avant or bmw 535 wagon kind of performance, fun and practicality with mazda batch on it.

I am thinking out loud so before you flame me keep in mind I am just throwing this idea out to hear what much more car savvy people have to say :)

I know the idea itself seems rather ridiculous but assuming that:

1) One of the major parts of my M6's drivetrain goes down and I have excuse to try to do the upgrade
2) I can actually find messed up MS6 ..either after accident or maybe try to gather parts one by one here and there

Is it even doable. The way I see it upper body is the only thing that wouldn't be changed. Maybe I could start the upgrade by switching to ms6 suspension, shifter and than when opportunity arises "just" throw the rest of the drivetrain in :) It's not that much after all ..just the engine, tranny and diffs for starters ;)

I don't know ..it's a huge project and I would need to learn a lot before I even start the basics but what do you guys think ??
 

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it may be "easier" the other way round, from MS6 to MS6 wagon, get a good MS6 and a trashed 6s Wagon and replace the back end. but do aware the back end of our car are different from regular 6 too. but in any case, this is no small task, unless you have the skill to do custom car.
 

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QUOTE (bova80 @ Jan 6 2010, 01:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627738
you'd need to swap ecu's and tons of other stuff. i think you'd be better off just getting a different car unless money isn't an object.[/b]
it sure is. If not I would get myself a MS6 and keep wagon as a weekend/ family ride :) No way I will convince my wife to switch to MTX or give up her beloved civic. It would definitely cost shit load of money to go with this project. I might just get a SAAB 93 SPORTsCOMBI AERO X when m6 eventually dies.

QUOTE (AllGrownUpMS6 @ Jan 6 2010, 01:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627740
it may be "easier" the other way round, from MS6 to MS6 wagon, get a good MS6 and a trashed 6s Wagon and replace the back end. but do aware the back end of our car are different from regular 6 too. but in any case, this is no small task, unless you have the skill to do custom car.[/b]
not a bad idea but I am thinking that combining 2 bodies with all the work, painting and such ...it might be even more expensive than swapping the drivetrain.
 

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sure would be really sweet tho wouldn't it.......
I've always had a soft spot for the Avant

sadly, I'm not even sure you could get the rear diff in there....


maybe an engine swap from a trashed ms3... certainly lots more parts cars available. Still not easy tho
 

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QUOTE (TiGraySpeed6 @ Jan 6 2010, 01:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627746
sure would be really sweet tho wouldn't it.......
I've always had a soft spot for the Avant

sadly, I'm not even sure you could get the rear diff in there....


maybe an engine swap from a trashed ms3... certainly lots more parts cars available. Still not easy tho[/b]
definitely makes more sence but I am not sure if i would want to have that much power without AWD
 

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get the 2008 STi in paddles and call it a day 300hp 300tq and AWD ahah u can get it in mid 20s with warrenty and call it a day!
 

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QUOTE (sp33dy6 @ Jan 6 2010, 02:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627760
get the 2008 STi in paddles and call it a day 300hp 300tq and AWD ahah u can get it in mid 20s with warrenty and call it a day![/b]
But the point is to have the wagon plus I was considering Legacy wagon GT but these are way to rare and way to expensive for what they are. It's hard to get 05' legacy wagon stick under 14k and they don't even come with MTX starting with 06'
 

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If you have the money, it's doable.

With that said, you'll spend a lot more money trying to get this to work than buying a 2009 STi.
 

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lol ever heard of the mazdaspeed 3? its the wagon version of the MS6 haha
 

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QUOTE (superskaterxes @ Jan 6 2010, 04:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627771
lol ever heard of the mazdaspeed 3? its the wagon version of the MS6 haha[/b]
sans AWD. If I recall correctly some performance shop or racing team was able to get some kind of AWD system setup in the speed 3. You could look at the CX-7 it basically has the same drive train as the speed 6, minus the manual tranny.

If you've got your heart set on an AWD wagon Mazda isn't the brand you should be looking at. Besides the engine, you would have to swap almost the entire wiring harness, both front/rear sub-frames, and a whole bunch of other crap that I can't even begin think of right now.

If you REALLY go for it...make sure you post lots of pics :yesnod: !!! A MS6 wagon would be a really cool thing flying down the road.
 

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QUOTE (jb606 @ Jan 6 2010, 05:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627787
sans AWD. If I recall correctly some performance shop or racing team was able to get some kind of AWD system setup in the speed 3. You could look at the CX-7 it basically has the same drive train as the speed 6, minus the manual tranny.

If you've got your heart set on an AWD wagon Mazda isn't the brand you should be looking at. Besides the engine, you would have to swap almost the entire wiring harness, both front/rear sub-frames, and a whole bunch of other crap that I can't even begin think of right now.

If you REALLY go for it...make sure you post lots of pics :yesnod: !!! A MS6 wagon would be a really cool thing flying down the road.[/b]

lol yea but his current car is FWD so whats the diff haha
 

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First, what is your primary NEED for a wagon? You only have 2 kids, and the MS6 seats 5 (fairly comfortably, according to back seats ppl), you're only going to get so much more added space with a wagon. That's my only criticism.


Now here's what you do. I'm 99% sure that the rear MS6 sub-frame would fit at bolt up, no problem. So, buy a decent stick MZ6 wagon, and a wrecked or salvaged MS6 (just make sure that all important components are intact, if you stay TMIC, make sure the fenders and hood are fine). Once you've collected all you need, begin swapping. I'd estimate the total parts, tools, and labor costs to be $25,000-30,000. If you were to do it yourself, it would be significantly cheaper, and I believe if you worked on it full time you could finish it in a week (if all parts are accounted for), and have it running perfect, with all the bugs fixed, in 2-3 weeks.

There are soooooo many components of the MS6 that are different than the regular 6's. That being said, you'll pretty much need to use alot of MS6 bits to make it work well. Fly me out to you, and I'll help build it :)
 

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i really dont understand this post, if a legacy gt wagon is too expensive, and money is a factor why would you think of this swap, by the time all parts/donor car is bought, and then not to mention the time and amount of work, it would end up costing so much more then trading in your current m6 wagon and buying a legacy gt wagon. also, as matt damond said, if you only have two kids the back seat of an ms6 is more then enough room. i would have thought of the s4 avant as an option, but i have been in an s4 and leg room was not too great, i couldnt imagine the avant being different. this is all just my opinion of course, i would go with the legacy gt wagon if i were you.
 

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Is the wagon a I4 or a V6?
 

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QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 6 2010, 09:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627842
i really dont understand this post, if a legacy gt wagon is too expensive, and money is a factor why would you think of this swap, by the time all parts/donor car is bought, and then not to mention the time and amount of work, it would end up costing so much more then trading in your current m6 wagon and buying a legacy gt wagon. also, as matt damond said, if you only have two kids the back seat of an ms6 is more then enough room. i would have thought of the s4 avant as an option, but i have been in an s4 and leg room was not too great, i couldnt imagine the avant being different. this is all just my opinion of course, i would go with the legacy gt wagon if i were you.[/b]
He makes a good point. If you can't afford a Legacy GT wagon, you cannot afford to complete this swap.
You can make your own MS6 you know. Turbocharge your v6, upgrade your suspension and other select drivetrain components. Then work over the exterior. And this can all be done for a few thousand dollars.
 

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QUOTE (MATT DAMOND @ Jan 6 2010, 05:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627817
First, what is your primary NEED for a wagon? You only have 2 kids, and the MS6 seats 5 (fairly comfortably, according to back seats ppl), you're only going to get so much more added space with a wagon. That's my only criticism.[/b]
Ok, finally someone in the mood for a discussion on what I have to admit is an odd subject. You are making a fair point BUT I guess the beauty and genius of a sport wagon can only be understood by a car enthusiast ...with a family on his back :)

OK, some facts:

1) passenger volume for both m6 sedan and wagon or more specific back seat space is obviously identical.
2) cargo space in case of wagon is more than twice the size of that in a sedan!!!! Sedan has ......roughly 14 cubic feet?? and wagon has 33.5 I believe. For better visualization: you can put 14 cases of your favorite beer in the sedan and 34 in your wagon :)

That being said, imagine this: You are taking your family for a trip, longer weekend with friends somewhere in the woods...whatever. You don't do it that often but when you do, you have to take your baby's stroller, all the possible gadgets and gizmos your baby needs on top of food, formulas, fair load of diapers, clothes bla bla bla...you have to take your own stuff +camera bag :), a cooler if you want to take your own food and if you have little kids you will want that :) ...AND THAN you have to debate with your 3 year old for 30 minutes why his tricycle won't fit in the car :) You get my point now ???

If you need a fun daily ride with MTX that occasionally turns into a frickin' family cargo train ..guess what ...WAGON is a godsend. Yes, you don't need it that often and there are ways to go around it and you wouldn't believe how much crap you can fit into 06' honda civic ....BUT when you start debating with yourself whether it's better to have a camera bag or your kid's toys in the passenger compartment in case of an accident....you know it's time for an upgrade. Also, if you happen to hate minivans and have similar feelings for SUVs and none of those even comes in MTX ...well again you are stuck with a wagon.
You don't loose anything by getting wagon and you gain so much. Some people even debate that some wagons might have better handling due to more weight in the back hence more balanced weight distribution.
I made few trips in my wagon already and I was happy like a kid in a candy store. I have my fun on my way to work and i have my cargo space whenever I need it. You don't need Macgyver skills for those occasional trips to IKEA either ;)

QUOTE (MATT DAMOND @ Jan 6 2010, 05:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627817
Now here's what you do. I'm 99% sure that the rear MS6 sub-frame would fit at bolt up, no problem. So, buy a decent stick MZ6 wagon, and a wrecked or salvaged MS6 (just make sure that all important components are intact, if you stay TMIC, make sure the fenders and hood are fine). Once you've collected all you need, begin swapping. I'd estimate the total parts, tools, and labor costs to be $25,000-30,000. If you were to do it yourself, it would be significantly cheaper, and I believe if you worked on it full time you could finish it in a week (if all parts are accounted for), and have it running perfect, with all the bugs fixed, in 2-3 weeks.

There are soooooo many components of the MS6 that are different than the regular 6's. That being said, you'll pretty much need to use alot of MS6 bits to make it work well. Fly me out to you, and I'll help build it :)[/b]
Well I have the stick wagon already so that part is easy and flying you in is even easier since we are both in Chicago area ??? :) When it goes to costs, forget about labor..I would want to do it myself. That's one of the reasons I wouldn't want to go the Legacy wagon way, the other being the fact that I hate to pay extra premium for something only because it has SUBARU batch and every other kid in the high school gets erection hearing the word:STI. Yes these are very decent cars and I absolutely love the looks and performance of LEGACY WAGON but besides the price there is one more crucial thing about these and sport, MTX wagons in general. These are extremely rare...I mean in the whole US- 10 cars for sale tops at this moment type of rare. Actually i just checked: 2005 (the only year that generation comes with MTX) Legacy wagon GT: 7 cars of which the closest one is 800 miles from Chicago. M6 wagons sticks are no different but at least these are reasonably priced.

I was hoping to spend 5 - 7k on the upgrade but I forgot about few things some other members have mentioned like ECU and all the electrical ..so it might be little more.

Again, please keep in mind my initial assumptions. I would only consider doing it if:
1) my wagon's drivetrain goes down ....looking at reliability ratings for our cars it wouldn't be such a shocker :)
2) I can find a messed up ms6. I have a friend that is visiting auctions at least once a week so if you can get very nice low milage ms6 for 15k ...anyday, I am almost certain you can find a racked one under 8k easily. Also certain parts can be upgraded over longer period of time spreading the costs a little. As mentioned earlier I could start with suspension, shifter, exhaust maybe.....a lot of that stuff will have to be replaced sooner or later anyways since my wagon will hit 80k soon.

All I am saying is that it is a weird idea but considering all above mentioned it's not as idiotic as some people here are trying to make it. It might happen that i will need an engine replacement next year or so. I can get a used V6 or I could get 2.3 turboed. That would put me half way there. It would be a project car. Something that would sit in my garage for whatever time is needed to have it done and slowely but surely step by step, part by part...... I am far from being a car mechanic, actually i suck big time but hey ...I want to learn. Google, this forum and MATT DAMOND ;) and I think I could manage. i was helping my friend with an engine swap once and yes it's a frickin PITA but it's not a rocket since either. I think it's doable ...have to research on that subframe issue.



QUOTE (Larry @ Jan 6 2010, 07:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627842
i really dont understand this post, if a legacy gt wagon is too expensive, and money is a factor why would you think of this swap, by the time all parts/donor car is bought, and then not to mention the time and amount of work, it would end up costing so much more then trading in your current m6 wagon and buying a legacy gt wagon. also, as matt damond said, if you only have two kids the back seat of an ms6 is more then enough room. i would have thought of the s4 avant as an option, but i have been in an s4 and leg room was not too great, i couldnt imagine the avant being different. this is all just my opinion of course, i would go with the legacy gt wagon if i were you.[/b]
All of the above plus what you said: both Legacy and avant (basically a jetta wagon) have a back seat space that can only be described as a joke. Than, there is a passat wagon and let me tell you mazda could learn from VW how to built precise MTXs and that 2.0 turboed engine is absolutely awesome but no quattro/4 motion in turboed passat.
 

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QUOTE (Qwik6 @ Jan 6 2010, 09:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627877
Is the wagon a I4 or a V6?[/b]
wagons come in v6 only and if you want to find a MTX you have to be VERY patient

QUOTE (Arinzeuno @ Jan 6 2010, 09:29 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1627881
He makes a good point. If you can't afford a Legacy GT wagon, you cannot afford to complete this swap.
You can make your own MS6 you know. Turbocharge your v6, upgrade your suspension and other select drivetrain components. Then work over the exterior. And this can all be done for a few thousand dollars.[/b]
Again, as mentioned in my previous post ...it's not that much of a money issue. Legacy is not an ideal car either. If you put my wagon next to legacy wagon I rather keep mine because of extra space both in the back seat and cargo space. If you can get me m6 wagon with legacy drivetrain though I am willing to pay a lot for that !! ;)

I was looking at that option but again I don't think I want all that power without AWD. Try a little spirited driving in the city on a rainy day in ms3 and you will know what I mean :)
 

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I'd look into an audi s6 avant, you keep the space, get awd and power
or if you lack the money, change some bits on your 6 wagon, put lighter wheels, better shock absorbers and tighter spring and hear you wife whining about the ride quality (I know I did)
Putting CPe headers, CPE intake and some other goodies might get you closer to the MS6 in numbers than you think
 
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